ABC Interview W/tripoli Resident 'Kordaba'

Jess Hill (@jessradio), reporter from ABC Radio’s PM
program (@amworldtodaypm), interviews ‘Kordaba’, a

member of the opposition movement in Tripoli.
(Transcript is of full interview. Audio can be heard online at:
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3218354.htm)
Can you describe to me what daily life is like in Tripoli at the moment?
Tripoli suffering from Mr Gaddafi’s army, and many, many people, about 25,000 person in
jail right now, in prison. He took everybody from 15 years up to 40 years. He enforced them
to fight with him. And if anybody refuse, they kill him immediately.

So is that… I’m sorry, are you describing that that’s a kind of conscription that Gaddafi has
put in place?

Yeah, Gaddafi is enforcing everybody in Tripoli. If you refuse to fight with him, you will be
killed. And people every night, every night went to the street, and they want to express that
they refuse him, they don’t want him anymore, that they want their rights as a human being.
But he answers us by bullets in chest and in heads every night, this is happened.

So there are protests happening every night in Tripoli?

Yeah, every night in Tripoli. And the NATO have the air planes flying on the Tripoli, and
they see everything. Each movement we do on the ground, they saw it. So they can confirm
this.

Can you tell me whereabouts in Tripoli these protests are happening?

Especially in Fashloom, in Fashloom, in Soug al Jumaa, and Tajoura. These are the three
areas starting the revolution in Tripoli. And most of people he took to the prisons are from
these areas.
I am a doctor. He gave us orders that we should not treat the revolutions, only we should treat
the army. They are militia, not army. We saw them, and we catch some of them, from Chad,
from Niger, from Algeria, they are not even pure Libyans; they are from everywhere. I
refused these orders, and I joined the revolutions. So I was in street, and expressing that we
want free and our rights. He had snipers everywhere. I was shot on the fourth day of the
revolution, about two months ago, more. I have a bullet in my chest.
Now in Tripoli, we have no communication, internet, we cannot connect with internet. We

can’t put these videos online.

But are you taking videos?

Yeah, we took videos for everything. For the people who burned the embassies in Tripoli,
American embassy, British embassy; the home of the Ambassador of England, everything
happened in Tripoli we have photos and video for it.

And can you tell me, is there an organized opposition movement in Tripoli at the moment?

Not organized, in these three areas I told you, we have one control room, ok. Because he put
his army everywhere, they stop the cars, they search the cars, so we cannot move easy. And if
he check the ID number, and he found you that you are living in Fashloom, or Soug al Jumaa
or in this area - you will be in trouble. So what you are doing here, where are you going?
Something like that. So we have some difficulty to contact with other revolutionaries in other
areas. But in these three areas – Fashloom, Soug al Jumaa and Tajoura – we have one control
room, so we are doing this job together.

I just I want to inform you about his son that died, and something like that. It is a fake, it’s
not true. We have information that his son in Germany. He just do this because he want
people to feel sorry about him.

And this is Saif al Arab Gaddafi?

Yeah, he’s not died. And we can confirm this by he didn’t show his face when they’re going
to bury him. Nobody saw his face, ok. And we have information that he’s in Germany right
now, with another name, not Saif al Arab.

And can you be any more explicit about the source of that?

I cannot tell you my sources, because they will be in danger. Most of my sources are people
inside Mr Gaddafi’s first circle, and they tell me everything, that his son’s ok.

Sometimes we get some guns and weapons from the army; we buy it, ok, by money, or by
killing some of them. We enforced to kill – we don’t want to kill them, but we are enforced to
do so, and we are sorry for them too. Most of them are enforced to fight with Mr Gaddafi.

So there is basically and armed conflict going on in Tripoli every night?

Yeah, every night, every night.

And you say that you’re in touch with some of the people in Gaddafi’s inner circle. Can you
tell me what the mood is in this circle? How do you have access to these people?

They are afraid. They knew that the time is over, and people will attack them any minute.
He is afraid, because we took an action inside Mitiga – it is an airbase for army. So we took
an action inside it, and we put a flag of the revolutions on the top. So he is afraid that most
people in the first circle, they are running away from him.

And if you heard about Eman al Obeidy, she ran out with some officers here, with high…

High ranking?

Yeah, high ranking, from the first circle of Gaddafi. He was close to Gaddafi. He took Eman
and ran out with his family.

Were you in touch with that person, or are these the types of people you have been in touch
with?

Not directly, not directly, but we have contacts in other cities, and they confirmed that it was
this person who did that operation.

And can I ask you, how do people in Tripoli feel about the NATO airstrikes?

I swear to God they are happy. When we didn’t hear the planes, we are upset here in Tripoli,
but when we hear some bombing and firing, we are happy, and we go out to the streets to
express that we are happy.

And it is chance for us, because when they bomb any control room for Gaddafi, they will not
be able to contact each other for about one hour. So we can go out into the streets, and do
some action about the forces he put in the streets.
So these NATO airstrikes, when they hit these command and control centres, that is giving
you an opportunity to go out into the streets. And is that an armed action that you are
taking? You are attacking army officers, or you are protesting?

It is depending on the site. Sometimes we attack the media offices, because they are lying on
the people. So we try to destroy these offices to stop the lying. And sometimes we attack the
forces in the street. These forces are militia, not a regular force. They stop people in the
street, they break into the homes, they took everything they can find.
They rape people, they rape the woman and girls; here in Libya, in Muslim countries, the girl
must be virgin until she’s married. But if she’s not virgin, I don’t know the exact word to say
it… But they enforce the girls to make love to them – I am sorry for this word. They rape
them. And if you stand in front of them it’s easy – it will not cost more than one bullet in
your head. This is how it is going in Tripoli.

And we are happy because the fuel is running out from Tripoli. And we don’t want other
countries to bring the fuel to Mr Gaddafi. Because if the fuel run out here, we can move easy.
His tanks will stop, his cars will stop, nobody will move. He do much force by cars.

And then you can move on foot?

Yeah, if he run out from the fuel, it will be helpful for us. And we hope that the United
Nations will not allow him to have fuel anymore.
And also the food is running out in Tripoli. The medication almost running out too. Because
he took everything to his forces, and to his storage, not to the people. And we want this
situation to get worse and worse, because at any moment, people will all go out again against
him, because they want to live.

So you are optimistic that people in Tripoli will come out and take action against Gaddafi?

Yes, yes, yes. In whole Tripoli. Now, I told you there is people every night went to the streets
and express that they don’t want Gaddafi in three areas - Fashloom, Soug al Jumaa, Tajoura.
But we count on this situation getting worse and worse, and whole Tripoli will get out again.

On the fourth day of revolution, whole Tripoli went, when they said Mr Gaddafi went to
Venezuela, whole Tripoli went out into the streets, and they were happy. But after three hours
of Saif al Islam’s speech, Tripoli was felled by his force. And they killed everybody they
found in the streets. We were in Fashloum; he used every force possible to kill as many
people as he can, to kill from Fashloum area, if you understand me.

Yes I do. I’ve heard that phones – all phones – are monitored in Tripoli. How are you talking
to us now? Are you worried that you will be caught?

Yeah, at first I told you that this is not my real name, Kordaba, and I’m trying to change my
voice, this is not my real voice. And also this number is not mine, this is from an Egyptian
person, he left Libya. And I am not calling from home, or any place. I am driving my car, so
that if they are tracking me, they will not catch me. Ok, you go it?

Yes, I understand.

So I have to move when I calling anybody with this number. When I contact with sources,
and some newspapers, and other people outside. So I have to be in the streets and driving my
car. So I will prevent them to catch me.

Will you try to leave Tripoli, or will you stay and fight?

No, I will not leave, I will stay here. Whatever happens. If I died, that’s no problem, I died
for something, and we will be happy. But we hope that we will get him as soon as possible;
we will get Mr Gaddafi out, or we will kill him. Anything that guarantee that we will leave
free after 42 years with his iron hand on our chest.

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ABC Interview W/tripoli Resident 'Kordaba'

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Jess Hill (@jessradio), reporter from ABC Radio’s PM

program (@amworldtodaypm), interviews ‘Kordaba’, a

Now in Tripoli, we have no communication, internet, we cannot connect with internet. We

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