Down The Line Magazine January 2011

Microcredit is "the extension of very small loans (microloans) to the unemployed, to poor
entrepreneurs and to others living in poverty who are not considered bankable." While some
institutions take advantage of the poor by charging high interest rates, some organizations provide
microloans that allow the poor to start a business and learn to provide for themselves. Once these
businesses are sustainable, the business owner can repay the loan and start helping others to start
small businesses. The goal is to help people willing to work to begin supporting themselves.
Organizations like Kiva (http://www.kiva.org) can make this process easy for those of us in the
Western world to support those who are less fortunate than us. Visit their page to see how you can
help. (Kiva did not buy this ad nor do they endorse this magazine – just givin’ ya food for thought)
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Letters To Us 5
TIME FOR SOMETHING NEW News 6
We are always looking for new ideas and
Steve’s Corner 7
directions at DTL. Not too long from now,
be looking out for the new Down The Line Matt’s Musings 8
podcast called “Basement Tapes”, hosted
by Mike Indest of Motonaut. Mike is going Steve Hindalong 9
to be highlighting bands and artists you
Crumbächer 15
might not have heard of, but need to.
Jamey Bozeman 21
Also coming in the near future is an updated
website. We are going to feature reviews of Leslie DuPre-Grimaud 25
music as we get them on the new site – that
way bands don’t have to wait a few months Ojo Talks Re-Issues 27
to get reviewed. We’ll still publish the
Sungrazzer 29
reviews in the magazine, but readers of the
site will get first view of them. David di Sabatino part 2 31
There are also other ideas being kicked Bill Mallonee 24
around – but if you have some, let us know!
We are always up for good ideas. Brian Kirsch (Sterling) part 3 37
http://www.downthelinezine.com Reviews 39
DOWN THE LINE LETTERS TO US
EDITOR Matt Crosslin
EDITOR Steve Ruff Yee-Haw! Crazy Is As Crazy Does
MARKETING: Ulike-a Youtellafriend
If you’re a fan of Mike Stand and The Undercover gets the blame
WRITERS Steve Ruff, Matt Crosslin, Bill
Mallonee, Joshua Lory The Altar Boys, you will absolutely for single handedly stopping all
COVER IMAGE Hindalong by Jimmy Abegg want to get this new album of those great traditional concerts at
LAYOUT Matt Crosslin Altar Boys tunes done rockabilly Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa every
WEB DESIGN Matt Crosslin for Monsoon River
Designs punk style. You’ll recognize Saturday since 1968. Thousands
drummer Chuck Cummings from upon thousands have given their
CONTACT: Dakoda Motor Co. and a bunch of lives to Jesus at these anointed
WEBSITE www.downthelinezine.com
EDITORIAL downthelinezine@gmail.com other Christian projects from the Concerts. One day in the mid 80s
ADS/MARKETING downthelinezine@gmail.com 1990′s as well. I could not be Chuck Smith showed up one
MYSPACE myspace.com/downthelinezine happier that there is a lone voice Saturday night and there was The
TWITTER twitter.com/downthelinezine
of morality in the rockabilly punk Undercover Band with their shirts
SUBSCRIPTIONS U.S.A. - $0, Canada - $0 scene; in fact, they are the only off and jumping around like idiots!
International - $0 current rockabilly punk group that U call that ground breaking? Hitler
Online - $0
More info: I will even listen to for that very was ground breaking too! Just
downthelinezine.com/subscribe reason. Check out their another “in the flesh, look at me”
ReverbNation page at band that never gave God any
IF YOU MOVE Don’t lose your computer – you
won’t be able to download the http://www.reverbnation.com/alt Glory, and why are you booking
newest issue without one. arbillies for a preview; you won’t these guys?
be disappointed!
WRITE US Letters and comments need to Scott Brooklyn
contain your full name. All
submissions become property of –David Gasten
(this comment came in on our blog,
Down the Line E-zine and may be Producer, “This is Vintage Now”
edited or condensed. Or even but Steve read it and wanted to
compilation
printed out and framed if you respond in his column. So check it out
really kiss our… um… never for his response.)
mind…. (thanks for the tip David – see the
VISION: review in this issue. And a tip for Look Us Up Online
any fans – you can get the CD for
Down the Line covers bands that explored the $5 + shipping from their Facebook Look! We have one of those cool QR
intersection between faith and art in the 1980s Code thingys. Just point your smart
through the early 1990s - even though they were page.)
probably never accepted in to what is called
phone app at it and pull up some of
"Contemporary Christian Music" because they were our sites automatically:
too edgy or alternative or liberal or for whatever
reason. Some of these bands may still be making So Many Bands, So Little Time
music today, and others may have moved on. We
cover these bands (active or dormant) as well as any Out of curiosity (and unless I
new projects by former members of these bands and
any new bands that may have the same spirit as
completely missed it) will there
these bands. ever be an article on Michael
Been/The Call?
ALL IMAGE AND STORIES ARE THE COPY RIGHT
OF THEIR RESPECTIVE CREATOR. YOU MUST
HAVE PERMISSION TO RE-USE, RE-PUBLISH, OR Alex Strohschein
RE-PRINT ANYTHING IN THIS MAGAZINE. SO FaceBook Comment
THERE.
(cool timing on this, as I was just
listening to the first vinyl by The Call
yesterday. You haven’t missed it – but
now that you asked… that is a great
idea. Anybody out there want to take Have any other questions,
part in this? We could use some help comments, theological musings,
pulling together resources on this etc? We would love to hear them –
(there would be a whole lot more technical mumbo one.) come be our friend on FaceBook or
jumbo in this space if we were more professional. But comment on our blog. We also do
that would be boring and all…)
that Twitter thing occasionally.
NEWS | DOWN THE LINE 6
Intense Millennium $15.00 and up will receive a download

Not only is Intense Millennium re-issuing link sent to their email the day the album
older bands – it seems they are now is finished mixing as well as a copy of the
signing newer bands. In recent IM news:
• Pre-orders for What a Joke by
disc before it hits any stores!”
See their Kickstarter page here:

NEWS
Deliverance and Destruction Comes
by Vengeance Rising are underway. http://kck.st/hZErOD
Each pre-order comes with a limited
edition guitar pick – but they are
selling out fast! March 28th is the
Upside Down Room
Pop.Vox.Music announced that punk
UPDATES
official release date for both titles. rockers Upside Down Room are back.
• Select releases by Ransom, Sacred
RELEASES
Well, they actually never went
Warrior, Undercover, Vengeance anywhere, but they now have new
Rising, and Bloodgood are on sale
music. Out now is a re-issue of the
for $9.99 for a limited time.
band’s out-of-print ep TV Baby with two
• Hard Rock/ metal band Under
Command have a new album
coming out soon.
• Brazilian Symphonic Extreme Metal
bonus tracks and redesigned “classic”
artwork. Also announced is a new 6
song ep to be released next month. No
COLUMNS
band Hawthorn have a new album more details on the new songs other
scheduled for release in 2011.
• Melodic rockers Cry Holy will be
releasing a re-mastered/expanded
than they were mastered by Jason
Martin of Starflyer 59. ETC
version of AlienNation.
Randy Rose
• Doom metal-er David Benson will If you were a fan of the Danzig-inspired
re-issue Holy Psychotherapy and
doom metal of Rose, you’ll be glad to
Purpose Of The Cross, both
know that they are recording new
featuring bonus songs and
music. From their bio:
previously unreleased material.
• Re-issues by The Altar Boys, Sacred “Rose is back! This next generation of
Warrior, and Bloodgood are still on Rose is harder without being
the horizon. pretentious. Recommended if you like
Q.O.T.S.A., Sabbath, White Stripes, and
Common Bond The Blue Van.”
In other Intense Millennium Records
news, a CD issue of Common Bond’s Four new tracks are posted on Randy
Heaven is Calling is coming in 2011. Rose’s Reverb Nation page.
Heaven is Calling has never been
Saviour Machine
released on CD. It seems that this will be
Saviour Machine posted a video on their
a part of something called a “new wave
FaceBook page announcing a string of
pack” – but not sure what that means.
concert dates being planned this year.
Locations and venues are to be
Lifesavers
announced, but the concerts will be
The Lifesavers are recording an album
planned to be more intimate than past
and they need your help. The name of
the album will be Dog Days of an Indian concerts. Dates and details will be
Summer and according to the band: posted on saviourmachine.com as they
become available.
“13 songs are written, recording has
already begun! This album will be classic The Altar Billies
Lifesavers Surf/Punk, a soundtrack for The Altar Billies have already released
Summer if you will. Recording will be
their first album. You can find their 11
done by Joshua Lory at his home studio
as well as One Way Studio with Masaki song debut CD on their Facebook page
Liu, who will more than likely mix it. and many other online outlets. Eleven
Mastering will be done by J. Powell at tracks of live and studio cuts featuring
Steinhaus Mastering. The money we rockabilly/psychobilly remakes of classic
raise here will go to studio cost for Altar Boys songs. As the band would say
recording drums, guitar, and mixing, as – YEE HAW!
well as CD pressing. Those that donate
7 DOWN THE LINE | NEWS + STEVE’S CORNER
Bill Mallonee
Several recent updates worth
mentioning from Bill Mallonee: First of
all is a new website designed by John
Michael Rose. It contains all kinds of
updates, news, lyrics, and community.
Next, all 25 albums and 8 Eps have been
moved to bandcamp.com. Bandcamp
provides listeners with the highest
quality audio files of any kind you want.
Finally, Bill is planning on recording a
new studio, full-band album early next
"The Undercover gets the blame for single handedly stopping all those great traditional concerts at
year (the first in 4 years).
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa every Saturday since 1968. Thousands upon thousands have given their
lives to Jesus at these anointed Concerts. One day in the mid 80s Chuck Smith showed up one
Scaterd Few
Saturday night and there was The Undercover Band with their shirts off and jumping around like
idiots! U call that ground breaking? Hitler was ground breaking too! Just another “in the flesh, look at
HM Magazine recently had this
interesting announcement:
me” band that never gave God any Glory, and why are you booking these guys?"
“On Jan. 11, 2011 the complete catalog

will be available for digital download
Hitler was groundbreaking too??? What? We definitely get all kinds of letters here, but I’m pretty
from iTunes, Amazon MP3, eMusic and
sure that this is the first one with a reference to Hitler. Besides the obviously flawed comparison, this
Rhapsody among others. “This is just the
letter made me reflect on a couple of things. I never lived in California and I was never able to have
beginning of what we hope to do in
attended any of these shows back in the day. It was a new, fresh and exciting time in Christian music.
making Scaterd Few available to its fans,
There were bands like the aforementioned Undercover, there was The Lifesavors, The Altar Boys,
the ones that made it all possible in the
Crumbacher, The Lifters and so on. My wife lived in California then and she remembers going to
first place,” stated Allan Aguirre, fka
Calvary Chapel and recalls how cool it was to see all the people who were outside of the mainstream
Ramald Domkus, singer and founder of
yet together in one place… church. They were hanging out, listening to music and having a good the band, “People have waited patiently
time. Her recollection in comparison to the letter we received made me think of a couple of things. for authorized digital content, and we
appreciate that”.”
One is that the differences between what my wife witnessed and what this reader’s letter recalled
speaks about how different we all are. We are each one looking for something different and unique More details can be found here.
to us. For the writer of the letter, they were still looking for what had typically gone on at Calvary
Chapel, the same type shows and the same type of “anointing” that they were accustomed to. My Dann Gunn/Velocipede
wife was visiting family in California when she visited Calvary Chapel. She had recently gotten sober
Do you remember a groundbreaking
from drugs and alcohol and she wanted to know what it meant to love Jesus. She identified with
band called Velocipede on R.E.X. Music?
these people who were outside of the norm – she identified with the dress, the music and the
They were ground breaking because they
message. For me it speaks to how big God is… He comes to us as we are and in a way that we can
went for the two-person band sound
understand. For my wife, if it had been the same way as in the late 60’s and the 70’s, it never would
years before it was popular. Seems that
have spoken to her the way it did.
Dann Gunn, leader of Velocipede, is back
with a new album called Easy. You can
The other thing this letter made me think of was this: isn’t it time to stop judging people so harshly? listen to it an purchase it from Dann’s
Christianity is about love isn’t it? “For God so loved the world…”, “Love the Lord your God and your website: danngunn.com/music.html
neighbor as yourself”, “and these three remain, but the greatest of these is love”. Love is a big thing.
Its open ended and we don’t get to choose who we love and who we don’t. Doesn’t mean we have Daniel Amos
to agree with everyone or what they do, say or believe, but who are we to say someone else is “in
The rumors are true – a brand new
the flesh”? What is that supposed to mean anyway, seriously? Who is this person to say that these
Daniel Amos project will be coming soon,
guys in Undercover never gave any glory to God? I am usually reminded of the scripture that says
that we will be judged in the same way we judge – that’s a stark measuring line isn’t it? I’m also
to be funded through Kickstarter.com
reminded of the scripture that says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Our salvation donations. Anyone that pledges money
is very personal. The way we come to Christ has different circumstances and the way we express our towards the project will receive special
faith and our salvation may be different from everyone else as well. It doesn’t mean that we are “in gifts and prizes. Stay tuned for details.
the flesh” or “out of God’s will” or anything of that nature. Daniel Amos is also planning a tour in
June – more details TBA. See
So, in conclusion I guess what I am saying is get over yourself. If you don’t like what is going on
danielamos.com to stay informed.
somewhere, go where you can be more comfortable. Just give everyone else the freedom to express
themselves in a way that they like. Jump around a little more, take your shirt off from time to time,
turn the volume up and remember that you are an individual… just like everybody else.
Everdown
Former Tooth & Nail east coast hardcore
band Everdown released a video for
“Black Clover” on their Facebook page. A
new album is still in the works.
NEWS + MATT’S MUSINGS | DOWN THE LINE 8
SLIDE
Slide has been a bit quiet recently, but it
seems plans have been in the works for a
while: In early 2011, Slide will re-launch
their website in preparation of their
debut release. Also, SLIDE has recently
welcomed Chris Berry and Jeff Lantry to
their lineup.
Kemper Crabb Some people ask me why I say “corporate greed is killing music.” What about people that
Multi-instrumental artist extraordinaire are stealing music? Or even those that do buy music but are too lazy to check out anything
Kemper Crabb announced recently that other than what the corporations are pushing on them? Or couldn’t the blame be places
he has a new album out: Reliquarium. on the musicians and bands that just dial in a performance and don’t push themselves
Recorded with “no real agenda, creatively?
stylistically speaking”, Crabb feels that
he was “able to combine and juxtapose Well, maybe the truth of the matter is that “lazy fans (or musicians) are killing music”
most of the types of music I enjoy.” Song really just doesn’t sound as catchy on a t-shirt. But for me, I don’t think these factors are
samples and a free download can be killing music. They are certainly ruining it in some cases, but not killing it. We have always
found at reliquarium.net. The most had some fans that don’t want to think and some musicians that are lazy – even back when
important note about this album is that the music industry was booming. But then again – we also had corporate greed. So what
it is a benefit album designed to raise
is different now?
funds for, and awareness of, Crabb’s
father’s missionary organization, The difference is that now fans and musicians that do care can find ways around the
Servants of the King corporate greed – both legally and illegally. The digital revolution has leveled the playing
(servantsoftheking.org). Here is some
field a lot. The corporations could have jumped in early and taken advantage of the
more about Servants of the King:
changes – but they still would have lost some money. In the long run, they would have still
Writ on Water stayed afloat, but that short term loss was just too much for them. So they went the
Writ on Water have uploaded two new greedy route and fought the change.
tracks to their Myspace player: “Haunt” The reason this is important is that we still need a national distribution network for people
and “Our Mingled Wires”. Both songs
to hear and obtain music (legally). The corporations provide that. Without that, there
were written and recorded for short
films earlier this year. “Haunt” appears would be no way for any bands to go on national tours – and almost all bands would just
in “Deep and Secret Things,” a short film be local acts trying to make a living off the same fans every week. In other words, there
Jeff both directed and co-wrote with would probably be no professional music stars.
collaborator David Whitten, while “Our
Mingled Wires” was recorded for There would probably be no music acts at the half time show during the Super Bowl either.
another short film entitled “artistic You need someone famous to do that, and without the national distribution that labels
(dis)content.” More information can be afford, there would be no stars.
found at newmythictake.com. The band
also says that it is not out of the question But those corporations are also ripping off their bands. So you see why I pin the problem
that we could see some sort of new Writ on the corporations. They could have changed for the better, maybe suffered a bit, but
on Water release in 2011. ultimately came out on top with everyone happy and new, sustainable business model.
But they chose the path of greed.

Velvet Blue Music
http://www.velvetbluemusic.com
• Kissing Cousins is hard at work on a
new ep.
• Panorama by Birds & Batteries ("a
rare mix of organic and electronic,
pop and experimental") and This is
Where We Are by Seryn
(folk/noisy/pop) are out now
• At All Angles by Winters Fall (“post-
americana, math-rock meets
th
twang”) releases Feruary 15 .
• Most older, out of print VBM
releases are be re-issued in mp3
format on their site.
9 DOWN THE LINE | STEVE HINDALONG
STEVE HINDALONG | DOWN THE LINE 10
STEVE HINDALONG:
CRAWLING IN AND OUT OF SHADOWS TOWARD THE LIGHT
Interview by Steve Ruff
Photography by Amy Jett (amyjettfinephotography.com)
Paintings by Ron Lyon
When it comes to bands that have influenced me on a deep here at Down The Line: he contributed to our Gene Eugene
level, The Choir is right up at the top of the list. There is a issue and I still have a great interview with him stashed
mystique and uniqueness to this band that comes shining away in the vaults for another subject at a later time.
through in everything that they have ever released. The
lineup of Steve Hindalong, Derri Daugherty, Tim Chandler, I find Hindalong to be one of the most accommodating
Dan Michaels and Marc Byrd is one of the most effectively people that I have ever interviewed. He seems genuinely
artistic teams out there that still can write, record and play kind, interested and intent on conveying things accurately. I
music that is relevant, genre defining, exceptionally peculiar was grateful for the opportunity to catch up with him about
yet unmistakably dazzling. These guys have always seemed their last two releases, Burning Like the Midnight Sun and
to come ahead of the curve, really in a sense they defined de-plumed, which for Choir fans is pretty cool to get two
how wide the curve could be, and they traveled it freely solid albums in the same year! My thanks to Steve for being
with numerous bands coming behind them and following gracious and answering, re-answering, editing and re-
their lead. You cannot talk about alternative music without editing the interview that took us several months. That is
listing these guys right up at the top. There might have been one of the difficult things about doing a quarterly zine,
secular contemporaries who were in the same category, but sometimes you get the news and the scoop but by the time
I don’t think there was anyone in the Christian industry that you go to press, the present has become the past and there
was doing what these guys (and lady in the early days) were is newer news. Anyway, Down the Line is pleased to finally
doing. feature one of their favorite artists…enjoy!
I think in most circles people cite The Choir’s 1990 release Lyrically, have you found that Burning Like the Midnight
Circle Slide as their most groundbreaking record, and while Sun has been challenged to a greater extent by your fan
that might be true to most, I think 1988’s Chase the base? What are your thoughts on fan reaction, etc.?
Kangaroo was where they really started to find their sound,
pick up stride and take off. The band has been in every From the beginning there have been a small handful of
musical nook and cranny creatively with each of the various responders to our music who seem to want everything they
members playing in other bands, producing and hear to suit their particular points of view, ideologies,
engineering for others, contributing to other projects and agendas and so forth. After every album we would get a
releasing solo material. Another milestone that I attribute few scolding letters, but I stopped concerning myself about
to The Choir boys (Hindalong and Daugherty) was the those negative reactions decades ago. My lyrics are about
release of At the Foot of the Cross – which was a two part what I honestly feel – personal reflections of a flawed,
release meant to inspire worship which was, again, ahead troubled, hopeful man – crawling in and out of shadows
of its time. toward the light. The responses of our listeners over the
years – the ones who profess to take our songs to heart –
Through it all I have not only been drawn to The Choir have been overwhelmingly positive and encouraging.
musically, but lyrically I think that main songwriter Steve
Hindalong has been at the front of the pack with is lyrics. This is a new era, with so much social media. Everybody has
His writing has predominately been love songs and prayers, instant, easy access to you, and audience interaction is so
but there is a depth of understanding and spiritual urgency immediate. I try to avoid polarizing debates of faith and
that also courses in the undercurrent of the subjects that he politics; such conversations are more beneficial face-to-face
embraces. Hindalong has the gift of being able to really between individuals with mutual respect for one another.
communicate the highs and lows of the human condition as My mind is not made up. I don’t think yours should be,
it relates personally and collectively. He has the ability to either. Immensely more is hidden than is known. I believe
convey what he has experienced in a way that encapsulates God is alive and moving in our midst. If a song inspires
the passions and sentiments of the heart and soul. We have listeners to ponder important things, then that’s a positive
interviewed Steve before for a couple of different things result.
What responsibility (if any) does an artist have to the listener? Do you write often? Or do you mostly wait until you get together
Obviously I know you want to appeal to your fan base, but to write lyrics for an album?
especially in “Christian” music, is there a responsibility that
bands should have to the listener in the area of faith? No, I’m not prolific at all. Most of the songs I’ve written are on
albums.
That’s an interesting question, and a personal one. My initial
response is: No, an artist has no inherent responsibility to his or Are you an avid reader? If so, who are some of your favorite
her patrons, anymore than a patron has any obligation to an artist. authors?
They don’t have to buy it, listen to it, hang it on their wall, or pay
any mind to it whatsoever. But I do appreciate artists who try to Not avid, no. I read mostly for entertainment. Historical fiction is
be honest – especially in matters of faith. Merchants employ tools my preference. I like to feel like I’m learning something in the
to target certain demographics. In secular music, sex sells. In context of a harrowing hatchet fight. Derri and I both love Stephen
Christian music, the name of Jesus sells. The latter is more Lawhead. I’ve read most of Pat Conroy’s books. A Prayer for Owen
problematic, in my view. I don’t imagine most anybody walks Meany by John Irving is my all time favorite. Or maybe it’s Shane,
around thinking about God and spirituality all the time. We’re the classic cowboy novel by Jack Schaefer.
consumed by the events of our daily lives. Maybe your beloved
family dog just died, or you’re going through a divorce, or your I was reading the latest review about BLTMS in The Chicago Sun
child is suffering from a broken heart, or your dear friend just got Times, and it struck me again how so many critics call Circle Slide
diagnosed with a dreaded disease, or you’re falling in love, or you a landmark album, even overlooking the Grammy nominated
lost your job, or you just inherited a fortune… these are the sorts Flap Your Wings. Why do you think Circle Slide is referenced so
of things we all feel deeply about, and in my opinion, are the much out of your extensive catalog as a landmark album? Is it
truest inspirations for art. I’m not saying that our spirituality is because it was so different than anything else that came out at
separate from the events of our lives. As believers we hope Christ that time?
is at the center of it all. But when we make music to sell in the
Christian marketplace, I think it’s especially important that we Well, for one thing, it was our most successful album
examine our motives. To my ears, art, in full cooperation with commercially. A lot more people have heard Circle Slide than Flap
commerce, so often rings less than true. Your Wings… or any of our other albums for that matter.
Now, having said that, I have profited from writing and producing I wouldn’t say Circle Slide was so different for the time considering
worship songs. When I receive a royalty check in the mail I get the bands that influenced us. It was 1989, at the culmination of a
happy like everybody else. My motivation is also impure and my musical storm of a decade. There were other inspirational, moody,
heart, conflicted. But in the case of The Choir, our songs have reflective albums around that same season, like Disintegration by
reflected personal faith in the context of real life. We’ve offered The Cure and Starfish by the Church. Of course, we didn’t know
both love songs and prayers. That’s a legacy I feel good about. then that another storm was just around the corner – Nirvana and
the ‘90s grunge phenomenon.
What is your favorite track on BLTMS and why?
It was our sixth studio album and we had developed a strong
I don’t know. I like them all right now. But if I were forced to pick sense of identity and creative confidence. Also, I was in the throes
just one, it would be “Bare Trees.” It’s a metaphor for the of a serious marriage crisis, so the lyrics are passionate and
importance of transparency in intimate relationships – a beautiful redemptive – dangerously honest, perhaps. Those themes, being
marriage of words and melody. And it felt so good to offer yet universal, seem to have resonated in the hearts of listeners.
another heartfelt love song to Nancy after thirty years together.
And Derri sang it so well.
Do you find that being a Grammy nominated band brings extra Imagine yourself nipple deep in the Jordan River. Shake along the
pressure when creating new material? water line – evenly – as though Jesus of Nazareth has just baptized
you unto perfection. And finally, all guitar players, keyboard
No. We’re not sure how that nomination happened, anyway. We players – and for heaven’s sake, horn players – please put down
were actually kind of shocked. But it sure was fun to go to the those percussive instruments and walk away slowly.
Grammy’s and be a part of that whole shindig. We don’t feel much
pressure to live up to anyone’s expectations beyond our own, What/who would your primary influences be right now
quite honestly. I tell artists I produce to “make the record you musically?
want to hear.” Any artist who accomplishes that is successful,
regardless if anyone likes it or not. That’s been our mindset for a That’s hard to answer. I love the most recent albums by The
long time. We’re pleased with our body of work, and have a lot of National, Beach House and Grizzly Bear to mention a few.
appreciation for each other as co-creators and players. So, it’s Explosions in the Sky has been sonically inspirational. But I also
mostly a matter of carving out enough time to make a focused, enjoy going back to 1971 to play Joni Mitchell’s Blue or Marvin
worthy effort; we want to be satisfied with whatever music we Gaye’s What’s Goin’ On. My favorite artist of all time is Sade.
offer. We don’t have any unrealistic commercial delusions at this Having absorbed decades of music, it’s difficult to cite any primary
point. I just feel blessed to be able to make music with my friends influences at this juncture. Derri and I listened to Wilco’s self-titled
after all these years, so I’m grateful to any and all who will listen. record before I played the drum track for “Between Bare Trees.”
Derri has been a music-buying addict ever since I’ve known him.
Who are some of your favorite drummers? Every time I go over to his studio, he’s got a stack of new CDs. But
we don’t mind going down memory lane, either. If we find
I appreciate innovative, energetic players whose beats serve the ourselves someplace with a jukebox we always select “Feel Like
songs they play. A few examples are Bryan Devendorf from The Makin’ Love” by Bad Company. Haha!
National, Nathan Followill in Kings of Leon, Jason McGerr
from Death Cab for Cutie, Chris Hrasky in Explosions in the
Sky, Phil Selway from Radiohead, as well as more well-known
drummers like Larry Mullen, Jr., Stuart Copeland, Mick
Fleetwood and Charlie Watts. I also admire the great jazz
legends like Elvin Jones and Buddy Rich.
As a drummer and percussionist where do you draw

inspiration for your ideas? I know there is the loop on BLTMS
that you said was a crowbar hitting a nail (I think that is
what it was), do you sit down and just try different sounds,
or how does your percussion progress?
I like to find things in tool sheds and kitchens to use as

percussion instruments. In the case of “A Friend So Kind,”
Derri had already programmed a chillingly perfect loop. I just
wanted to reinforce the backbeat with something metallic.
So, I found a nail puller bar, decided to strike it with a
screwdriver, and was really pleased how the note resonated
in the key. I approach percussion far differently than I do
when I sit down behind a drum set. The drum track is what I
like to call “the vehicle the song rides in.” I either try to lay
down a deep groove, or if it’s an up-tempo tune, a tight beat.
I keep it simple because my kick foot has never been stellar,
so why make life harder on myself? Conventional drumming is
typically very objective. Like most drummers, I’ve got a kick,
snare, hi-hat, cymbals and toms. I suppose most listeners
visualize fairly clearly what I am hitting. Percussion, on the
other hand, can be very subjective. I can open my mind and
be sonically experimental. Often, listeners won’t know what
I’m hitting, but I suppose sound evokes a visual response, so I
imagine every person sees something different in their mind’s
eye when they hear it. I enjoy contributing to the soundscape
in that way.
Now indulge me this passionate proclamation: Tambourines

should be wooden and round with metal pins and jingles. All
plastic, misshapen ones should be promptly thrown into a
heap and set ablaze. And here’s some friendly counsel to
shaker players everywhere from a veteran of the skill: Hold
the shaker level in cooperation with the law of gravity.
Favorite Husker Du record? (Mine is Everything Falls Apart) Are It struck me as a great word to represent an acoustic or
you also a fan of Sugar? “unplugged” album, and also keep the whole “bird/flying” theme
we’ve perpetuated for years. Plus, the artistic continuity between
Husker who? Ask Derald about that. He’s a true believer. Sugar? both albums felt poetic.
Yeah, I really liked their Copper Blue album from ’92.
Given that you guys don’t always like to play older Choir material
Is everyone in the band close to each other? I know you and Derri (from what I’ve read in previous interviews), how comfortable
are in Nashville, are Dan, Marc and Tim nearby as well? was it to revisit this material in such a different manner?
Yes. Dan, Derri and I moved from southern California to Honestly, it was somewhat difficult to sit there together, Derri and
Tennessee in 1993, so it’s been 17 years. Tim moved out here ten I listening to every album in its entirety. It’s true that I hate to look
years ago, which inspired the lyric for our song, “Follow Me.” Marc back, since I feel we’re still trying to get it right. Our current album
also migrated to Nashville from Hot Springs, Arkansas in the mid- is always our favorite and we’re already pondering what’s on the
nineties, along with his band Common Children. horizon. But, one afternoon, that’s what we did. We chose the
songs we wanted to re-record quickly and instinctively.
Our friendships are complex and deep. Music brought us together,
but it’s about so much more than that now. We’ve shared much of What was the most challenging thing about recording an album
life’s journey – the celebrations, the disappointments, the failures acoustically, and what has been most rewarding?
and the successes. I would throw myself in front of a train for the
sake of any one of them – their wives, their children – but not It is definitely a production challenge to record without bass
their pets. Which brings me to another proclamation: Domestic guitar, ambient electrics or keys. We used a bit of glockenspiel for
animals lower the quality of our lives. My wife believes they are counter melody. Christy Glass Byrd sang harmonies and she always
spiritual beings. Hmm… Animals belong in barns, or better still – in sounds like a million bucks. And perhaps the best decision we
the wild. Have I deviated from your question? made was to bring in Matt Slocum from Sixpence to play cello. He
is among the most musical guys around… and a treasured friend.
What would you say the greatest challenge with the BLTMS But my favorite song on the album might be “Love Your Mind.”
record was? And that’s simply Derri and his Gibson J-45.
The hardest part was getting started. After that, it was easy. How have you and Derri enjoyed playing the shows the last few
Everybody likes what everyone else does, so the creative process weeks?
was relatively harmonious. I felt somewhat gloomy once it was
done, wishing we could compose and record more songs. It’s been great to get out there and share our music this way. For
the most part, we’ve played “home shows,” and we believe our
Are you guys looking for a label to get behind BLTMS, or are you songs come off well in intimate settings. Derri is singing better
okay staying independent? than ever these days, and I always enjoy getting into my bag of
“percussion tricks,” playing guitar and performing a song or two of
Staying indie is probably our only option, so we may as well be my own. It’s been satisfying to interact with people on a more
content! Seriously, that’s what makes the most sense for us – and personal level. The vulnerability factor is high, to be sure. Derri
for most bands nowadays, it seems. thinks I share too much sometimes. I don’t know. It’s my nature to
be unguarded. What have we got to lose at this point, anyway?
So, it had been five years between O How the Mighty Have Fallen Everybody wanders in the forest. Regardless, we’ve had some fine,
and Burning Like the Midnight Sun. Then just a few months later fun times. Folks have been truly gracious to us.
in the same year you guys put out another studio album. How did
the idea for de-plumed come about?
We had performed a private acoustic concert for a few faithful

fans in Dan Michaels’ back yard last summer. It felt surprisingly
good, so we decided to take it on the road as an acoustic duo. Our
following is very devoted, so we figured most of them would
already have Midnight Sun. Our initial idea was to offer a special
new recording exclusively for those audiences, which would be
something we could also create relatively quickly. I had recently
seen one of our favorite bands, The Church, on a tour where they
performed one song from each of their albums in reverse
chronological order. It made for a very entertaining show. So
that’s where we got the idea to reinterpret a song from each of
our 12 releases, from 1985 to the present.
The title, de-plumed, was actually inspired by an art piece given to

me several years ago by our gifted friend, Ron Lyon. He’s the same
artist who more recently painted the front cover image for
Midnight Sun. In this particular painting there is a bird and a pair
of scissors. I thought, “stripped down… featherless… de-plumed.”
What have your favorite songs been to play live, and why? How did you feel about the Undercover/Crumbacher/Lifters
th
concert in So Cal on January 8 ?
Well, I’ve been surprised by “Clouds,” from 1987. We had never
played it in concert because we weren’t confident we could pull it Derri and I opened the show with our acoustic set; then I played
off as a live band. But strangely, it feels powerful as a duo. The percussion for Mike Roe. In retrospect, they probably should’ve
words keep convicting me. It feels God-breathed, and I’m not one done it without us because the show was so long! Ha! The rest of
to say that about songs – almost never, really. Other than that, it’s the night was about nostalgia. It was fun to see The Lifters again.
different every night. Certain songs come alive on people’s faces. Chris Brigandi is a great front man, and the crowd really loved
And like I said, we’ve been up close! I will say that I get a kick out them. Crumbacher was surprisingly tight. They put on an
of doing “Wicked Guns,” a Lost Dogs song, because I get to sing it entertaining show for sure – transporting everybody back to the
and then twirl my rope! mid-eighties. And I must say, Undercover was as mesmerizing as
ever. Ric Alba was playing with them and I felt he added a lot –
Any plans to do another acoustic album? musically and spiritually.
No such plans. You played with a few other people that night. What songs were
the highlights for you?
Riki Michele sang “God of Wonders” with me. She’s a very dear
friend, so that was special. Ojo Taylor and I also accompanied
Mike Roe and Riki as they sang “Dig” in tribute to Gene Eugene.
That was a soul-stirring moment.
You guys were part of a very influential music scene in Southern

California in the eighties. Was it good to be together again?
It was gratifying to interact with one another after so many years –

not just the folks that performed, but also several other characters
from that scene who were hanging out with us. The atmosphere
felt accepting and supportive. We’ve all seen plenty of valleys and
hills. I celebrate each of their journeys and I wish them peace and
light.
What are you working on right now?
Today, I’m writing album credits for a South African Choir project
that I’ve been working on for several years. It features an
awesome black choir from an impoverished township called
Masiphumele. I’ve been so privileged to travel to Cape Town three
times to produce the album. Several of my musician friends played
on it as well as Jars of Clay, Casting Crowns and Michael W. Smith,
so it’s a blend of musical cultures. I’m so excited about it! It’s
called Living Hope in South Africa. It’ll be available soon.
What does the future look like for The Choir?
Derri and I will play five shows in Texas the third week of February.
We’ll be touring the Midwest and then travel back east in April
and May. Beyond that, I honestly don’t know. I feel like hitting
some drums really hard right about now, though!
http://www.thechoir.net/
http://www.facebook.com/TheChoir
www.thechoirdownloads.com
www.myspace.com/thechoir
www.twitter.com/thechoirtweet
http://www.youtube.com/thechoirvideos
http://www.thelostdogs.com/
15 DOWN THE LINE | CRUMBÄCHER
CRUMBÄCHER:
A Tough Act To Follow…
Interview by Steve Ruff was expected. As we entered our early 20s – ministers were telling them. We remembered
we were ready to shed those things and step hearing the same warnings as teens ourselves
This is basically a second part of a larger into who we really were – and yet – the about the demonic beats and satanic lyrics of
interview that we posted to the Down The industry had its expectations of what we Rock ‘n’ Roll, trying to corrupt our souls, etc…
Line website a few weeks back. If you missed should say and how we should say it. I It was an uphill battle, to be sure, but we
the first part of it, swing by the website wanted to rebel against it – but I felt I would realized it would be from the very beginning.
(www.downthelinezine.com) and check it out. be ungrateful in doing so. I felt blessed to be I mean, we were all raised in churches where
In this part everyone that has played in the where I was and I knew I shouldn’t take it for many considered it a sin to dance – just like in
band weighed in with one set of questions or granted. Not everyone gets to fulfill their the movie “Footloose” but yet there we were,
another. We had the chance to catch up with hopes and dreams in such a way. So I battled a naïve little band of church kids that
some of the band members after the these things inwardly. These “inner demons” performed primarily what would have been
Undercover/Crumbächer show that was just I guess you could say - came out later in my considered at the time to be dance music!
played in January. If you feel inclined, there is music with Almost Ugly. It was a very freeing Our parents and families were very supportive
also a link at the bottom of the page to musical experience for me. of us though and I’ll never forget the first time
support the ministry that the reunion show my 64 year-old conservative fundamentalist
benefited, as well as to help out with ongoing Jimmy: For me it was learn as you go, while Christian Mom saw us play with Undercover
expenses from the show. assuming those people you found yourself in and the Altar Boys. I warned her that there
subjection to actually knew what they were would probably be kids dancing at the show
Looking back and being there in the early doing, as they seemed to position themselves to our music and the other bands’ so that she
eighties as one of the forerunners of the so confidently and comfortably within that wouldn’t be shocked by what she saw. We
alternative Christian scene, what were some thought. Granted, this applies to me as well if went on first, but she and my dad stayed for
of the biggest obstacles that you had to I place myself in this second position. I think the whole evening and at the very end she
overcome as a band in the industry? another perspective would be the challenge came to me and said, “You know, I think I’ve
of navigating through people's hesitancies as been wrong all these years; there’s nothing
Dawn: The biggest obstacles to overcome in you try your best to operate in your own sinful about dancing when you’re just having
the industry I would say were fitting into the liberties while doing what you do well. fun like these kids were here tonight. It’s too
mold that the industry wanted to put us in. bad that we didn’t have good Christian music
As we moved into the mainstream Christian Stephen: Being raised in the church, we all like this to dance with when I was young; we
music scene with each consecutive album knew what we were up against regarding missed out on a lot.” Now you have to
release – those expectations became more perception of what a Christian artist should understand, a statement like that would have
important to the labels and people we were be, although we also had the youthful been considered heresy in some of the
working with. They had concerns about lyrics, optimism that being privy to this inside churches I grew up in, but my mom, even
our appearance and even our attitudes about knowledge would somehow assist us in after all those years of following the rules,
issues such as “dancing”. I know some of navigating those waters and winning over saw that there was something special
these issues may seem trivial in our world support. We were wrong of course, and faced happening with this generation that made her
now but growing up in the church of the 70s a lot of the same resistance as many of the have to reevaluate a few things. From that
(and for my brother and I, as missionary kids) more progressive artists, but we also knew point on my parents were at just about every
we had spent much of our teenage years that Christian teenagers were totally hungry local show we did (and even some that
conforming our actions and behaviors to what for this type of music regardless of what their weren’t so local) cheering us on.
CRUMBÄCHER | DOWN THE LINE 16
As performers we also understood that we of the artistic creativity has disappeared to. we were just starting out we would get into a
were going to be held up as Christian role Many of today’s artists do seem to be more little trouble at some events upon informing
models, and even though we didn’t want that financially successful than we were though so the promoter or sponsor that we did not have
unrealistic and ultimately impossible-to-live- maybe it’s a tradeoff they are willing to live a point in our show when we did a traditional
up-to responsibility, it was part of the job with. But for me Christian music has lost its altar call, where people would get the chance
which we had to take very seriously. There artistic edge from the early years. Don’t get to come forward and pray to have a
were no wild tour parties or anything of the me wrong, I still feel like there are many very relationship with God. It just seemed so out
sort in our band, and really there wouldn’t talented musicians and singers out there, I’m of place for what we were doing, and being
have been anyway as that just wasn’t the type just not hearing very many great songs. that we were all raised in the Christian church
of people we were. I can honestly say we Maybe that observation shouldn’t just be our whole lives, we felt that a commitment to
were your basic well behaved church kids, aimed at Christian music exclusively, but I any type of spiritual relationship should be a
albeit with a bit of a rebel streak. Still, we always felt that if we really believed we had more personal thing. If the music could lead
knew that every move we made would be tapped into the creative power of the people down that path then great; we just
scrutinized under a microscope to ensure we universe through our faith, we should be didn’t feel it was our calling to force the
weren’t a bad influence on our young setting creative standards; instead we just outcome of a spiritual awakening to be the
audiences. As noted, unrealistic yet keep pandering to the masses like most other end result of that musical journey. Besides,
undeniably part of the job. I guess looking pop entertainment does. concerts are just too emotional anyway to get
back, maybe I wish we could have lightened a true sense of what you really believe or
up a bit, and enjoyed the experience a little Did you guys view yourselves as a ministry want, when the lights are flashing, smoke is
more while it was happening; but we did keep band, or did you look at it more as blowing, and music pounding. But if we could
out of trouble. entertainment? put on a show where people would leave
feeling better and more hopeful about life
Ironically though, one of our biggest battles Dawn: Honestly we felt like we were than they did when they came in and give
came from the commercial side of things entertainers. Yet, we also felt a definite them something to think about, that was our
more than the church. Christian music as a connection to our audience which helped with ministry, and we were most successful when
business has to look at its consumer audience the ministry side of the band. We were all we were coming at it from that angle.
– mainly other Christians – and deliver raised in the church and we related easily to
accordingly. They may say that the intent is to our audience. We enjoyed providing church Were there perceived ideas that you had to
reach “the lost” for Jesus, but in reality it is kids with music that they really loved and overcome?
mostly the already self-identified Christians could have fun with. As we were growing up
they are selling to. In our case there was in the church (and especially in the missionary Jimmy: Mostly my own, coming from a life
always concern that since we did not community) mainstream styles of music, as the child of Missionary parents. The
specifically mention Jesus in our early songs especially secular were not acceptable for American music culture was challenging for
our demographic target audience might be “Christians” to listen to and for us that me as I tended to want to operate from a
confused as to whether or not we really were became confusing as we were drawn to it. My "Third Culture" perspective, but found it
Christians. As an artist, this really frustrated view is that there should not be a line drawn necessary to accept many cultural positions as
me because I felt like I was writing songs that between secular and Christian music. I feel valid without fully understanding why.
truly reflected my faith from an artistic that the music and the artist performing it
perspective – “Glowing in the Dark”, should be able to convey who and what
“Identical Twins”, “Interstellar Satellite” – and they are without having a label attached.
it should already be established where I was
coming from spiritually since I was signed to a Jimmy: It was purely therapeutic and
known Christian artist label. But it seemed much more rewarding than being a Go-
the industry didn’t have enough faith that fer. I think anyone that formally accepts
their listeners could put the pieces together the idea that they are a "minister"
and figure it out for themselves without us positions themselves in a very
constantly reassuring them in every other precarious place, and in doing so limits
song that indeed we really were still the liberty which God's spirit requires in
Christians, by inserting references specifically order to use his people effectively in
to Jesus, Lord, God, Savior… I didn’t have a revealing His grace. So yeah, it was
theological problem with it per se, but to pretty entertaining for us. We were
throw religious references into songs just to pretty darn good at what we were
get them played on Christian radio seemed a doing.
little disingenuous. Finally at one point I was
informed by label A&R if I didn’t write a song Stephen: Personally I saw what we did
for our upcoming “Thunder Beach” album as entertainment, good, quality, fun,
that could be played on traditional Christian family friendly entertainment. We knew
radio, then they would have someone write though, that many of the venues we
one for me (and I WOULD record it!). That would be playing had a different view of
was when I went home and wrote “Here Am our mission, and so we opened
I” which became our first nationwide number ourselves up to being available to more
one hit on Christian radio. It turned out the ministry focused events when it was
execs were right, but I was never completely appropriate. We were never totally
comfortable with the practice of leveraging comfortable with the exclusively
religious catch phrases for the purpose of ministry focused role though. I think it’s
optimizing a song’s chart position. These days because we could all see the value in
though it seems the whole industry is based putting on a great show and uplifting an
on doing just that; I can’t even listen to what audience that way, and then letting the
is considered contemporary Christian radio ministry come from that experience
anymore without wondering where so much however people were open to it. When
Dawn: I feel as Jim, that our perception was time to move on. I’m very grateful for the is – and how I relate to Him and how He sees
clouded by quite a bit more than just the years I had with Crumbächer. us. I feel that I really understand now the
ideas about music. We were coming from a true nature of a loving father – who loves all
“third” culture as we began to assimilate back Jimmy: It hasn't. We are the band, the of His children – regardless of their color,
into American life – and we also had that to audience just doesn't have a real good way of sexual preference, or political beliefs. I might
deal with those issues personally. I do know knowing what we are doing anymore. We not really fit in much in a traditional church
this – my perception of how we would be could produce even better stuff today, setting anymore – I really feel like an outsider
treated as a band was shattered quickly. In perform everywhere etc,, we just have a few when I enter one. But that really has nothing
the industry, everything is moving quickly in more responsibilities than we did since our to do with my relationship with God. It’s just a
production with deadlines, marketing and the last project. So I think it's about what stops us preference I suppose. I would never want to
“machine” that helps to run a band. I don’t from doing it. put down anyone in the church – as I believe
want to place blame necessarily on anyone we are all heading the same direction and we
specific – but I did not feel that the people in Stephen: I think after four albums we had should support one another and allow each
booking, record companies or promotion finally done everything we could or at least one to worship and serve God in the way that
really cared about anyone in the band. Steve wanted to do in that configuration. We were works for them.
was the front man and in their eyes; he was and still remain close friends, but everyone,
the “important” one. Mind you – I didn’t have including me, had things they needed to try I also have to give credit to my “boys” in the
much issue with it – I just accepted it as the outside of the Crumbächer format. Also, band, Sleeping Giant. The church I attend,
way it was. I will say this though – now that marriage, kids, and other major life events Tithemi, is pastored by the lead guitarist, Eric
I’m in management with bands and work in moved in and we had other responsibilities to Gregson. I met Tommy Green, the lead singer
production with them, it does help that I had our families outside of the band. I would be about 7 years ago when he was pastoring
the experience. I definitely try to be aware of lying if I said I didn’t miss some parts of it, but there. When Tommy would speak about
those who might not be the main focal point – honestly you just reach a certain point when Jesus – there was something different about it
and let them know how valuable their touring and playing music isn’t the only thing all – he was really “in love” with this man,
contribution to the project is. you live for. Jesus. I was enthralled by the aspect of a
relationship like that with God. It has really
Why did the band come to an end? You guys have obviously stayed friends, have had an impact on my life to be a part of their
you kept in touch through the years or was community. I was able to work with the band
Dawn: As mentioned earlier, after doing four there a reunion of sorts? for a year in management – and it was
albums with Crumbächer, without much of a thrilling to work again in the Christian music
creative outlet – I was becoming weary of the Dawn: We have stayed in touch over the side of the industry. I also ran a non-profit
same process. I needed a change. I had been years. We’ve all been friends for so long – ministry, Open Arms – a community house in
married all of the years that I was in the band some of us even before the band – so when Grand Terrace, CA for 5 years and I had the
and waited to have a family so that I could the marriages and babies come along – you constant support of Eric and Tithemi. I’m
concentrate on music. After four years, I just naturally stay in touch for those parts of truly blessed and grateful to have been a part
began to feel motherhood calling me. I life as well. There were times where some of of their true community as a believer.
became pregnant with my daughter, Janae. us wouldn’t see each other for a year or
As soon as that transpired, we all basically so – and I can’t say it’s always been
knew that our touring/recording would come good times, but that’s just how it goes.
to an end. I can’t speak for everyone – but it I can definitely say that the families of
was just obvious to me that it was time to the band and crew are family to me and
move on. I would never have traveled with or always will be. Our children grew up
without a baby – I knew it was not a place to together – we just spent New Year’s Eve
raise my daughter. I have a very strong together – and it’s always good to get
“mother” instinct – I loved being pregnant back together like that. In 2005, we
and loved the entire idea of being a mother as gathered at my parent’s house for a
well. That being said, after my daughter, dinner party. That little get-together
Janae was born I still attempted to make it sparked the 2005 Broken Records
work. Janae was born in January, 1989 and Reunion Show.
we had a tour coming up in the Spring. I
would not leave her at home – so my sister Jimmy: A) You could say that B) In a
Beth filled in for me. It was a fun time for the way C) Yes D) Perspective changes, and
band actually because for a few brief months with it faith....hope, love. Radical and
– I even performed locally with my sister and Ridiculous.
another drummer, Mike Barnett who also
filled in for my brother during some of those Have you guys stayed with your faith
months. I guess it was almost like we couldn’t as Christians?
really let go – or didn’t really know how to let
go. I remember my last show very well – it Dawn: I feel stronger than ever in my
was bittersweet. I knew that I was leaving faith. More than anything – I feel that I
behind something very special – yet it was just understand much more about who God
Stephen: We are still close, extended family was just very rewarding in so many ways. You Jimmy: Lyrically Escape From The Fallen
really. Faith-wise I would say that our interacted with other bands, with fans, with Planet | Style Worlds Away CD
foundations are essentially the same as when the techs, the teachers and even a few
we were just teens growing up in the Christian crazy's. Yeah, there are some really unstable Stephen: My favorite Crumbächer album was
church, even if we have all progressed in our Christians out there. Very cool. typically whatever we last worked on, though
own unique directions. It’s all very personal now I have to say I keep going back to Escape
though and I can’t speak for anyone else in Stephen: Our first show as a band was From The Fallen Planet as the album I would
the band except to say that if there truly is a opening for Undercover, The Altar Boys, The most like to be remembered for. There is so
heaven, I believe you’ll see the members of Choir (Youth Choir), and The Lifters on New much blood, sweat and tears (not
Crumbächer there… and we’ll most likely be Year’s Eve 1983 in Orange County, CA – it exaggerating) in those songs both musically
opening for Undercover as usual. doesn’t hardly get any better than that! We and lyrically, and it is probably the best
also got to work with Steve Taylor a couple reflection of who I was as a creative person
Are there any memorable shows that really times, which was incredible. I remember during that time in my life. I’ve always felt
stuck with you, and were there any favorite opening for Sheila Walsh once too when we that if anyone wanted to know who I really
bands that you liked to play with? were just starting out and she was just so am and what goes on in my mind, it’s all there
gracious and kind, and went out of her way to in those songs and that recording in
Dawn: I loved to play with Steve Taylor and tell us how much she enjoyed our set. I think particular. To the critics who said those songs
Undercover. Steve was always very gracious – that was one of the best parts of being in the were somewhat shallow and didn’t have
he’s an awesome person. He would band really, getting to meet and work with so much meaning to them, I would say that
remember everyone he had met before – and many of the artists we looked up to. That’s perhaps they didn’t listen hard enough, or
I don’t just mean the band members – but what made the festivals like Cornerstone and maybe they just weren’t big fans of our synth
even our family members. He was a kind soul Creation so much fun. There were also pop style. But on that album I pretty much
and you just wanted to be around him. certain pockets across the country where we tell you everything there is to know about me.
Undercover was always that way as well. could always expect enthusiastic crowds:
They were real, down-to-earth and just Lancaster County, Pennsylvania (Amish Can you each pick favorite songs off each
genuine dudes. Memorable shows were country of all places), central Florida, Ontario album?
Knott’s Berry Farm Music Nights. We played Canada, Phoenix Arizona, and naturally close
many of them, New Year’s Eve and sometimes to home in southern California in Orange Dawn: Incandescent – It Don’t Matter
spring or fall as well. County or the Inland Empire where we were Escape From The Fallen Planet – Tourist Trap
based. I probably looked forward to the New Thunder Beach – Once In A Heartbreak
Jimmy: You know there should have been Year’s Eve shows at Knott’s Berry Farm most Tame The Volcano – Rainy Season
some favorite bands to play with, but we of all, getting the chance to not only be on the
traveled alone so much and when we did play same bill with our favorite artists but hang out Jimmy: Incandescent – "Sweet by and by" (A
with other bands it was a onetime deal. I think with them on our home turf as well. song we all grew up singing in a much
our favorite scene was the big festivals. It was different style and it brought the two worlds
the best of everything and the whole event What is everyone’s favorite album and why? together) Escape From The Fallen Planet –
"Tourist Trap" (I was into Tears for Fears at
Dawn: I think my favorite album is the time and I used some of what I had heard
Incandescent more for personal reasons. from them on this song. Also the concept of
That album to me signifies who this song grabs me.) Thunder Beach –
Crumbächer was/and is. We were "Thunder Beach" (I felt like this song really
young and innocent – and it’s nice to went well live and had potential to really rock
think back on those times. Sometimes if we played well. It spoke to our target
the creative process becomes so audience at the time so it felt like we
watered down when you get more cooks were communicating part of our perspective
in the kitchen – and I feel that the first on some of our challenges in this alternative
album was really untouched by anyone style).
outside. To me – the memories from
the recording process are wonderful and What are your favorite songs to play live?
terrifying at the same time. We were
young and it was so exciting to be thrust Dawn: “It Don’t Matter,” “Tourist Trap,”
into something like that – but it felt so “Once In A Heartbreak”
true to who we were as a band. I didn’t
realize until years later who Ojo really Stephen: The up-tempo songs were always
was in the scene. I do remember Ojo the most fun to play live naturally; “Thunder
telling us that the vocal arrangements Beach” was the best show opener, “Jamie”
might be a little too challenging for us! and “Life of the Party” were great closers. But
We plugged through and kept them I also remember there were times when we
anyway! Derri Daugherty was would play “Interstellar Satellite” and it would
engineering – it was a fun exciting time. just be surreal, the response the song would
get. “Reckless Boys and Bad, Bad Girls” was a
great number live too, even though we only something more to say, just not enough time never been released on iTunes. You can find a
performed it a few times before disbanding. at the end of the day to say it at this point. link to it at www.take2productions.net.
Probably my least favorite to play live was But as I tell my friends and co-workers now, I
“Here Am I” since it was uncharacteristic of got to live the musician’s dream as a young POST REUNION SHOW, SEVERAL MEMBERS
our sound overall, yet one of our most man, walked away from it to have a WEIGH IN
popular songs on the radio. Radio hits were wonderful family, and then every five years or
always a mixed blessing: on one hand they so still get the chance to pretend I’m a pop How was the show for you guys this time?
gave us exposure to a larger audience that star for about an hour all over again with the
would have otherwise never given our music a best little techno-pop band I know. I’ve been Dan: The show was pretty good. I know I felt
chance; on the other hand they didn’t really very fortunate. rusty, but it helped that Dan Davila graciously
represent our core sound very well. Still, any lent me his guitar rig and helped me get a
time you can play a song for a responsive and Extra Questions for Dawn: really good guitar sound. Beyond the show
appreciative audience, how can you not enjoy itself, being together with the band again was
that experience? I’ve since made peace with How did the re-release of Escape From the really special. I have savored the reunion
those songs and do enjoy playing them live Fallen Planet come together? shows. At any given moment you look across
now because they are how so many of our the stage and wonder if it will be the last time
fans met us for the first time. The most Dawn: Meis Music Group is working with you play with the band. Sounds maudlin, but
personal song to me is of course “Once More KMG to re-release many of the albums from it is a pretty emotional feeling.
for the Band” on the last official Crumbächer the Frontline catalog. When Meis Music
album, because I wanted the band and the Group heard about the show in January – they Jimmy: Mixed Nuts... I don't like them. A
fans to know how much the whole experience decided to release one of Crumbächer’s recipe for crazy. Our set went rather well
of working in this group meant to me, even albums to coincide with the live show; as they considering. It was all a bit stressful for me.
though it was clear we were coming to a point were also planning the Undercover, Branded Too many other people to worry about, and I
where it would have to end. If you want to release. These are both 25th anniversary was. Don't want sympathy or even empathy
know the song that was the most fun to albums and we are excited about it being re- here because my challenge was absolutely
record, I think the band would agree that mastered and the added bonus track. Chris nothing compared to some. Otherwise, the
“Tame the Volcano” will always be Duke also worked hard on the cover and it show was great in that I think I had about 15
remembered as the song we laughed through even looks better! people there who have known me for a while
more than anything, with all the chants and and yet had never seen me play with
sound effects; I think everyone thought I was Are there any other re-releases planned for Crumbächer. The most important one being
crazy when I would tell them, “Okay, now sing the future? my son Quincy (19, and yes after Jones), who
this…” and it just got weirder and weirder. is himself an accomplished drummer whom I
Dawn: I don’t know at this point if they will have high hopes for if it is to be.
Anything that you would like to add? re-release the other albums – all are now
available on iTunes though in their original Dawn: This show was even more emotional
Dawn: I work with young artists in state. It would be nice to re-master the for me personally than the last time in 2005. I
management now and I know how important others as well and even add extra tracks. I had worked so hard on the promoting for
it is to educate them about the music guess they will see how this release fares first. months before – that by the time I made it to
industry. I want to thank Down The Line for the show – I was exhausted. Seeing the fans,
the work that you do commemorating those Are you still playing in the band Almost Ugly friends, family was overwhelming to me again
who have had an impact in the music scene with Christopher Duke? just as it was at the Broken Records Reunion
over the years. It’s so important to know your Show. I also really felt like it might be the last
own roots and also educate yourself about Dawn: Almost Ugly doesn’t play live anymore. time we would ever play together again
those that have gone before you. Thanks for When we did – we had a blast – we were able onstage; I can't explain why – it just felt that
your work! to play the Hollywood club scene – it was new way. When a band stops playing – you just let
and different territory for us and we really that part of your life go. And you really don't
Jimmy: Do what makes you happy, what you loved it. We are just beginning to get the feel like it's "you" anymore – if that makes
are good at, what gets you out of bed every material released on iTunes. We’ve had songs sense. Now that my two children are grown -
day. If everyone did this we wouldn't focus so on the Roswell DVD Release, Lifetime Movies, I've got a couple of seasons (I hate that word
much on trying to do what we think we are “She’s Too Young” and “Cyber Seduction”, actually) of my life that have now passed.. and
supposed to do to please everyone else. You and other CBS TV movies. I feel like we will to revisit them in such a way – is very
are specific... be specific. continue to release other material and write emotional and surreal. As Jim mentioned – it
as we go forward in working for TV. was also stressful trying to manage everyone
Stephen: Since I feel as a songwriter I better and think about everything going on besides
represent myself through my music (and not Is there any released material from Almost actually playing. I felt well prepared this time
in interviews), I should probably close saying Ugly? as far as knowing my parts – it was easier this
that I hope I’m not entirely done with music time to get it back from my memory banks!!
yet; but if I am done, I have nothing to regret Dawn: Tuesday, January 4th, 2011 – our first
and everything to be thankful for regarding collection will be released on iTunes – As far as some of the other performances and
my experiences in this band and the music biz Basement Tapes. These songs, even though bands there – I really felt it was an extremely
in general. I still feel like I might have they have been played on TV and more – have special evening. So much love, memories and
appreciation for each other and some his family started a conga line. My dad, who is always had a big part in our making our shows
amazing performances. It was overwhelming 71 - decided to get in it. My mom and all of a success.
to be a part of it all. One time, in the green our kids joined in. By the time the song was
room – I interrupted Ojo and Mike Roe as ending – it went from a few people to an Christopher: Was super, as usual. Crumbächer
they were going over "Dig" on the piano. I entire line the length of the building and it seems to bring people to their feet whenever
HAD to check a part for one of our ballads and was a sweet moment to see all of those we play. Shake it! My only wish is that they
make sure I knew it. After that moment – I people having such a great time! I will never could have been closer to the stage. A lot of
couldn't believe I had just done that! I almost forget it - what a gift it was to watch from modern venues (churches especially) have the
shoved Ojo out of the way to check stage. front row about 20 feet or more from the
something!! There were moments like that stage, plus the churches always have
happening all day. Other artists, Mike Pritzl Christopher: I thought it was going to be that crazy staircase right up to the middle that
and Mike Stand were hanging out too. It was “Tourist Trap,” which was cool too. My keeps this weird buffer zone between you and
really a fun time! favorite one was “Once in a Heartbreak” I the audience. Again crowd AAA+++
think. My buddy Mike was on stage playing
Christopher: The show was great and actually percussion right behind me. Dawn comes over What has each member in the band gone on
(at least outwardly) seems like the easiest during my solo and we have a short band to do presently?
part. It's the preparation where something mate bonding moment. The other reason I
like this takes its mental toll, on me at least. liked that tune was that my 9 year old son Dan: I’m a Computer Systems Architect. I
When fans come up to you after a gig, like this Alex (who hates loud noises and wears ear enjoy the work, but talking about it is
one, and let you know how it affected them, plugs to movies) was right up to the edge of guaranteed to suck the life out of any
and God bless' em, it's usually above and the stage, over on my side, decked to the conversation. As far as music, I recently did an
beyond what they expected, on many levels. nines like a 70's rocker and totally soaking up album called Singing Scriptures Romans Cycle,
The performer in me digs and subconsciously the whole vibe. I have moments in that tune which is KJV verses from Romans put to
craves this admiration I think, because right where I'm not playing, so I would cruise over music.
before I walk on stage, all I can think about is to him and high five and stuff. We both totally
all the areas in which I am most likely to screw dug that. It was his first time seeing his Dad Jimmy: Ummm, I work in a warehouse. Yeah,
up. Our rehearsals seemed rushed at best, but play. I will remember that for a long time, it's fascinating. Actually, I am fortunate. I work
we are all pretty seasoned in our own areas hope he does too. for Toyota Motor Sales in perhaps their
and at some point default to each of our busiest parts distribution center in the
respective musical comfort zones. I doubt if How was the crowd response? country, if not the world. We get your
we'll ever get back to those magical carefree replacement parts to your dealership. A really
days of this is all we do, but the occasional Dan: They seemed to be into it… waving their great company.
bring' em outta the closet and dust'em off canes in the air and stuff.
gigs are probably the cheapest and only I'm also active with a non-profit called
plausible time machine we have access to Jimmy: Crumbächer has always been very "Missionary Kids Ministries". Have been on
right know. So Dawn, and all those involved. I hard for me to put in summary for people their board of directors now for over 10 years
thank you from the bottom of my soul for the who ask. It's a band you just have to hear live. and have the opportunity to work with BIOLA
trip. You just won't get the full effect from our University, Azusa Pacific University, and
recorded material. Not a big elaborate show... California Baptist University, all of which are
What was the song you guys ended up just very effective live and I think you get right here in southern California. We partner
enjoying the most while playing? drawn in both musically and emotionally. with each of these schools in helping facilitate
Stephen's dramatic writing is expressed and support the re-acculturation of college
Dan: My favorite was playing “Tourist Trap.” It cohesively by the whole band all at once. I age children of Christian missionary's into
has probably been around 23 years since I think I would say for all of us one of the American culture. The phenomenon called
played it. The song has some noisy guitar in pinnacles of this business is the live "Third Culture" is very evident and valuable in
it… I like noisy guitar. performance. So yes, large or small the not only these particular individuals, but
crowd's response is always anticipated pretty much anyone who has spent a
Jimmy: I enjoyed doing "Tourist Trap", regardless of perspective. If you can't work off significant amount of time living in a culture
regardless of the fact that it put Stephen flat of anyone else’s perspective for whatever other than their own, then returning to the
on his back out of breath by the end of the purpose, why are you doing it? I'd say perhaps first and dealing with a third perspective
song. It had been at least.... I'd say 22 years? because it matters. which is generated from the experience. You
Just a great song for me and I love the music, can find us at: MKMinistries.org, also see
lyrics AND... the tempo. Dawn: The crowd was amazing. They were so TCKid.com
into it. Many of them were singing every word
Dawn: I was most excited to play "Tourist along with us. As a performer - when the Dawn: I currently work as Creative Director
Trap" but it was the hardest song live for me - crowd is really with you - the adrenaline just for Take 2 Productions. I left my job in 2007 at
so I can't say I enjoyed it as much as I wish. kicks in. I had a great time. As Jim mentioned ABC Television (Manager of Creative Music
For me the best moment of the show was – we've always felt like our live shows were a Services) in 2007 to start the company with
during "Life Of The Party" – our finale. Mike great representation of Crumbächer - and I my sister, Beth Jahnsen. We help provide
Barnett (Crumbächer - Duke drummer) joined have to give credit to our fans - they have opportunities for artists to reach a wider
us onstage, playing percussion and some of audience through placement in TV shows,
Continued on page 28…

JAMEY BOZEMAN:
21 DOWN THE LINE | JAMEY BOZEMAN
THE LIGHT AND HOPE OF CHRIST WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ART

One of the coolest things about doing this zine It was a moment in time in the music world, away over the winter break, and returned to
is not just getting to talk to my favorite artists, one that was welcomed, and one that is find something new happening with us
but also communicating with other people missed. musically. That was a turning point for us
about great music that means something to
musically and as a band. After experimenting
us. I really enjoy reading feedback from our
readers because it gives us some type of Can you give me a history of Luxury and who with the line-up and the sound for quite a
gauge as to how we are doing and how people the players were? while, we were starting to solidify what we
are enjoying (or not) the bands that we cover were after musically. That is to say, we were
and the stuff we have to say. People don’t The beginnings of Luxury were with our still pretty unfocused stylistically (were we
always take time out of their schedule to drop drummer, Glenn Black, and with me at Toccoa going to sound like The Smiths or Fugazi?), but
an email, but sometimes we get some pretty Falls College, where we played in a band we were now focused enough to begin
crazy letters, and sometimes we get really
called "Various Artists" between 1988 and becoming a "real" band.
cool encouraging emails. Jamey Bozeman sent
us a really nice email a few months back. I 1990. Chris Foley and my brother Lee enrolled
immediately recognized the last name and at TFC in 1990, at which point the three of us The Shroud made some initial 4-track
Matt and I were pretty sure that it was Jamey (Lee, Chris and me), plus drummer Todd recordings with David Jarvis in 1992, and then
Bozeman from the band Luxury that was one Monroe, started a new band that was later (as we were improving our writing and
of the original Tooth ’N Nail artists. eventually known as "Flagday." Todd moved performance skills) recorded a four-song
Fortunately it was. on in 1991, and Glenn, Lee, Chris and I formed demo with Andy Lemaster (now better known
a new band combining these two previous for producing a number of cool bands and for
It was really cool to catch up with Jamey and
groups. What we started would become "The his own band Now It's Overhead and his work
talk about Luxury and what he is up to now.
Shroud" in 1991, and included guitarist David with Bright Eyes). This four-song e.p. was
We were trying to get his brother Lee in here
Jarvis. Eventually David stepped down, and I called Tinsel. This was our first legitimate
also, but they both have pretty constant
stepped back in after taking a short break demo, and it helped to break us into the
demands on their time and we just couldn’t
from the band. Atlanta music scene. In early 1993, we
get Lee in here. I highly recommend that you
recorded a full-length release called Candy
purchase this music if you haven’t already.
By January of 1992, between fall and spring Darling, again with Andy Lemaster. The whole
Like so many other great artists, Luxury was
semesters at TFC, Glenn, Chris and I began thing was recorded on a Tascam 8-track
ahead of the time for the Christian industry.
writing songs that were more aggressive and cassette multi-track recorder. It was utterly
They came out on a label that was breaking
less Cure-ish, if you will. Up until this point, low-tech by today's standards, but I still have
into the scene in a big way, and they were a
we had drifted into very moody, atmospheric a soft spot in my heart for that amazing piece
unique act for the Tooth ‘N Nail roster who
writing, and our new musical ideas were of technology. We recorded in Toccoa, our
mostly signed much heavier acts at that time.
taking us away from those roots. Lee was home base of sorts, and at the all-ages club
JAMEY BOZEMAN | DOWN THE LINE 22
club that we ran at the time, called "The Dish." We really wanted to months of recovery for my brother Lee and Glenn, along with a lot of soul
promote music in our tiny southern town, and The Dish was our way of searching. Both Lee and Glenn suffered severe injuries in the accident, and
doing just that. We brought in both local and touring bands, some of the band was sidelined until we could decide how to continue, if we were
whom later became known on a national scale. As a side benefit, we were going to continue at all.
able to essentially stay at home and reap the benefits of getting to know a
lot of other bands without needing to do a lot of traveling. By the spring of '96, after we all had a chance to recuperate and consider
life as a touring band, we began writing again. The result of this was The
Like so many other bands, The Shroud began to experience its own inner Latest and the Greatest, which was recorded outside of Athens, Georgia in
turmoil. The four of us were starting to differ in our personal and musical the summer of 1996. Not too long after this, we went on what would be
visions and we made the decision to split up. We were scheduled to play at our second and final tour as Luxury, teaming up with Morella's Forest. By
I.S. Fest in Atlanta in the summer of '93, and we determined to make that the end of 1997, we were starting to drift in different directions once
show our farewell to our small group of fans. What actually happened again. We still played occasional shows. For the most part, we lived near
prior to playing this festival was that by taking a break from the band we each other and were able to continue working together on a basic level,
found that we really missed it and each other's company. We played that but it was becoming obvious that we weren't going to pursue the band and
last show and realized that the four of us had something special. Perhaps a mutual career in music the way that we had originally conceived.
not earth-shattering, but certainly significant. Before the festival had
concluded, we had determined to get back together, recanting of our In 1998, however, we got the itch to record a few songs. We had
decision to end the band. previously parted ways with Tooth & Nail, partly due to our vision for a
band/label relationship (which Tooth and Nail did not necessarily share)
It wasn't too long before we decided to give the band a complete make- and partly due to our own inexperience and naiveté. Long time friends
over. We were going to make a break with our past and forge a new David Vanderpoel and Marty Bush had started a label called "Bulletproof"
future. I can't remember exactly when it happened, but at some point Lee to which they were beginning to sign bands. We began talking to them
suggested that we re-name the band "Luxury". I'm pretty sure that this about our interest in releasing another record, and they brought us on
suggestion was not met with unanimous enthusiasm, but the idea and the board. We recorded what we call the "self-titled" album with Matt
name stuck. Goldman at our studio in Toccoa and at his in Atlanta, starting in late 1998
and stretching into 1999. Matt did a fantastic job capturing our sound,
By the summer of 1994 we had recorded another demo, called (rather helping us to do justice to the new songs that were literally coming to life
simplistically) "the pink tape," as it was a cassette with a nifty pink cover. as we recorded them. As a side note, we ended up buying back about
Several of these songs would appear on our first official full-length album. 1,000 copies of this album when the distributor went bankrupt. I still have
We made the fateful decision to drive to Cornerstone Festival that those CD's stored away, and we still sell a few now and then.
summer, and make the attempt to play the impromptu stage where we
might showcase ourselves for Tooth and Nail. We really had no interest in By 2001, Luxury had become a side-project to our lives. Up until this point,
any other label at the time because we were so impressed by the bands on all of us except Glenn had remained in tiny Toccoa, Georgia. Glenn had
the T&N roster. relocated a few years previous to Asheville, North Carolina, which wasn't
We drove to Cornerstone in a borrowed Ford station wagon. After arriving, too far from Toccoa. But by 2001, Lee was preparing to move to the Kansas
Glenn promptly had an epileptic seizure; only the second that he had ever City area, and Chris had begun to consider his options. I had been playing
had. Obviously, this was neither a good omen or a great way for Glenn to in another band, Canary, that had more-or-less evolved out of my
spend his first day at C-stone. We spent the remainder of the festival continuing desire to make something out of my musical ambitions. Canary
meeting people and trying to promote Luxury person to person, as much later became They Sang As They Slew, and we signed with Northern
as possible. We managed to meet Jeff Cloud, who was (and is) very cool, as Records. Even so, Luxury remained alive in a very small way.
well as some members of Blenderhead, as I recall. After multiple
unsuccessful attempts to be selected to play the impromptu stage, we In 2003, Lee suggested that we try to put out an EP, and offered three song
were finally picked. It was the last day of the festival, and we had actually ideas to work on. What actually happened was that Northern offered to
planned on leaving that morning. We opted to stay and try one last time, release a full-length record instead, if we could assemble the songs. Lee
and found ourselves on stage in the blazing sun at 1:30 in the afternoon. I went to work writing, and I began the process of recording what was to
don't believe that we played all that well, but I think Lee really put on a become Health & Sport, which was released by Northern in 2005. In the
good show. The Blenderhead guys really liked it, and Brandon Ebel seemed process, we brought on Matt Hinton (of Piltdown Man) to play guitar and
quite impressed. He took us aside and offered us a deal right after we were fill out the sound. These recording sessions were the last time that Luxury
done playing. It was quite a memorable moment for all of us, I think. I assembled in its entirety.
drove back to Georgia that night, taking Glenn with me, along with Zach
and Russel from Joe Christmas. All of us have remained active in music on some level, whether by
releasing music by way of other bands or simply by continuing to play
We began recording Amazing and Thank You in October of 1994, at generally. Glenn, who continues to suffer from epilepsy, has tried to keep
Neverland Studios. Steve Hindalong produced and Chris Colbert active playing drums with friends locally, as well as by introducing his
engineered. This was an incredible experience for me. Steve had been a oldest son Nicholas to the world of rock music. Chris is now Father
long-time musical hero of mine, and working with him and Chris was Christopher, an ordained priest in the Orthodox Church in America. He still
simply fantastic. occasionally is able to pick up a bass guitar and make music, though his
calling as a pastor and a father and husband leaves little time for such
In support of the new album, we spent part of Spring 1995 touring with activities. Lee and I have both continued to write music and release it. Lee
The Prayer Chain. Again, this was an incredibly formative experience for us, works under both "All Things Bright And Beautiful" and "Orient Is His
getting to know these guys who would continue for years after to be Name", releasing music both through Northern and the bandcamp.com
influential as friends and fellow musicians. site. I worked with They Sang As They Slew (a.k.a. Canary, a.k.a. The Canary
Islands, and so on) for over ten years, releasing albums under our own
Everything changed for us after our first trip to Cornerstone as a Tooth and imprint (The Cut & Paste Collective) and on Northern Records, as well as
Nail band, in the summer of '95. We were gathering momentum at that on bandcamp.com. Lee and I are also attending St. Vladimir's Orthodox
point, playing a lot of shows and planning to expand into regular touring. Theological Seminary, where we are each pursuing ordination and our
We were becoming a professional band. We played to a packed tent at master’s degrees.
Cornerstone, and felt that we had really arrived. On our way back to
Georgia, however, our driver lost control of the van that several of us were All of which brings us up to 2011.
in, and rolled it across the median of I-57 in Illinois. What followed was
23 DOWN THE LINE | JAMEY BOZEMAN
When did you guys sign with TnN records, and how young of a label were presented themselves in this manner, such as Dischord, Adult Swim,
they at that time? Teenbeat, Merge, and so forth. I suppose these days that sort of thing is
simply called "branding". We had strong "punk rock ethic" tendencies, and
We signed with T&N in 1994 at Cornerstone Festival. They were fairly new lacked the experience needed to deal with a label that was heavy on the
at the time. I believe that Amazing and Thank You was something like business side, as T&N was. There is nothing wrong with being heavy on
release number twelve. So we were a part of that initial phase of the label, business, it just didn't suit us as it turned out. We were far too casual in
I suppose. our approach, though I would hardly call Luxury a group of slackers. We
simply had our own time frame, our own ideas concerning bands and
What were some of the primary obstacles that you had to overcome as a labels, and these didn't mix well with T&N.
band back in the 90’s?
I think that Bulletproof, specifically David Vanderpoel and Marty Bush, had
In some ways, to be a band in the 90's was tougher than it was prior to and known us for so long and had worked with us that we didn't have these
after that time. We were on the cusp of the revolution that the internet sorts of problems. We were all from Georgia, and I think we had a more
was about to bring, and we couldn't see it happening at the time. When we similar mindset, by comparison with our relationship with T&N. We were a
started, bands like us were primarily concerned with recording at a dinky, different band and different people by the time we signed with
8-track studio and putting out cassettes or 7-inch vinyl. We would use our Bulletproof, as well.
land-line phones to call around for gigs (cell phones were essentially
unheard of), and we would play to audiences that had no way of knowing We used to give T&N a lot of grief over what we saw as their failure to be
who we were prior to us coming to their venue. There was no MySpace or what we thought that they should be. As time has passed, I think that T&N
Facebook or such. There were 'zines and proper magazines, and if you were simply acting like a business and we didn't care for their methods. I
were good enough or edgy enough (or both), then you had a shot at think that the fruit of their vision has been to become more marginalized
getting some exposure that way, but that was about it. This seems like and to sign ever more bland bands that sell lots of records. Not that all the
such a constraint by today's standards, but in so many ways it was easier acts are bland. Just most of them.
and simpler. These days, nearly anyone can release anything at the click of
a mouse or the push of a button. We are utterly inundated by useless, Back in the early days of TnN, there were so many great bands, but it also
average, unnecessary music, and the good music often is lost in the seems that the label oversaturated the industry to some degree with so
shuffle, literally. many acts and not all were of the highest caliber. Did you feel that
Luxury got lost in the shuffle to some degree?
To find cool music at that point of time (the 90's, before the internet took
over) was like finding a treasure. It was a challenge, and you valued your It was really up to Luxury to stand out, and due to some circumstances
music collection accordingly. These days, music has become disposable beyond our control and some that we had control over and chose poorly,
due to the ease and abundance of recordings available. Music has truly we failed to gain the audience that we had at one time hoped to gain. T&N
become a product in so many ways. Gone are the days of sifting through had a lot of faith in us initially, but we simply weren't on the same page.
the cutout bin at Camelot, and I (for one) miss those days. They saw our potential, perhaps more than we saw it, but we were unable
to capitalize on their faith in us quickly enough to make anything of it. T&N
In the 90's, bands faced less of a challenge to be heard. It was still by no signed a lot of acts at that time (at least this was so from our perspective)
means easy to get the attention of a record label, but the musical and I think that we did eventually get lost in the shuffle. But, hey, that's
landscape was a far cry from where things are today. The rule of the day in business.
the 90's was "adaptation". Suddenly, we were starting to book shows via
email, which was entirely novel at the time. The music industry was in Working as friends can be difficult to some degree, how was it being in a
transition from analog to digital, from cassettes and vinyl to CD, and band and working together as brothers?
eventually to MP3. Music videos, which had previously been the domain of
major label acts, were now becoming common for even small bands. If there is anything that I miss about Luxury, it is the wonderful comradery
Because of all of this, the demands on bands became much greater. We that we shared. There were so many good times that we spent together,
had chosen to "make our stand" in a small town in Georgia, making it that most of which I utterly took for granted at the time. There is nothing like
much more difficult for us to meet these demands. working to make art with your friends. When the creative muse hits, and
you all find yourself in sync, all the gears mesh and the stars align, and
Regardless, we were able to release multiple albums essentially on our then you all sort of look around at each other and try to suppress the grin
own terms. We were never terribly successful according to the standards that's spreading on your face because what you just played was absolutely
of the music industry, but we made decent art and tried to manifest the amazing… there is nothing like it. You all struggle to give birth to this idea…
creativity that had been given to us by God. you fight and argue and things begin to turn ugly… and then you try to
make the song happen one more time. And then it happens. I miss this,
After leaving TnN records you guys signed with Bulletproof, correct? Why both with TSATS and with Luxury.
did you leave TnN for another label?
As far as working with Lee is concerned, it could be difficult because he is
We didn't get along all that well with Tooth & Nail. Some of that might be demanding, sort of specific, and yet sort of vague, presenting a moving
legitimately blamed on the fact that we had spent so long working from target musically that we needed to hit in order to meet his demands. But
the D.I.Y. perspective. We liked T&N initially because in so many ways it fit when everything clicked and we found that he was digging what we were
our preconceptions of a musical community. The bands on the label at that doing, we were rewarded by his enthusiasm, which was a very good thing.
time tended to see themselves as "Tooth & Nail bands". We certainly For Lee, "close" was never good enough. He's difficult to please, but if you
understood ourselves in this way. We had always liked labels that
JAMEY BOZEMAN | DOWN THE LINE 24
were able to create something that worked for him, then you probably had that has occurred in us. If we have "put off the old man" then why would
created something pretty good. play music that merely reflects that same "old man" that we have
supposedly shed?
Having said that, consider the fact that he's my brother. My younger
brother. I'm a bit of a hot-head, and so Lee probably suffered more from Having said that, I would be quick to say that most so-called Christian
our working relationship than I did. I miss being able to work with Lee like music simply turns me off. So much of it tries too hard to be "spiritual" and
we used to in the early days of Luxury. fails to be anything more than sappy words. Others become cynical and
drift away from their roots as Christians, perhaps for legitimate reasons,
Do you consider music to be just music, or do you consider it to be art and their music portrays a loss of faith that does little to help anyone and
and therefore consider yourselves to be artists? perhaps harms some.
I think that we as musicians make music, and that we make art. There is My concept of authentic, honest "Christian" song writing (please
high art and low art and everything in between. I think that we were trying understand that I use that term hesitantly) would loosely follow the
to make something that was truly art, knowing that it would simply be the pattern of the Psalms. The Psalm writers many times would question what
sort of art that's simply in between. These days, so many musicians simply was happening around them. They would lament the ills of the world and
want to make a buck. Can you blame them? I'd like to make a buck. I think the falseness of men (even supposedly Godly men). They would even cry
that I may have made more money from my music since I stopped trying to out to God, asking "why?". But they, as a whole, turn their focus back
make a career of it than I did when I was really trying. Strange. Luxury was towards God, recognizing that in a broken universe, He is the one
really about making art in one sense, and about simply writing a good rock consistent, unchanging fact of our existence, and that, ultimately, He is
song in another sense. We were artists in the sense that one cannot help good, indeed the only true "good" that we can know.
but be an artist if he makes something artistic. Were we true artists or
good artists? I have no idea. We literally gave blood, sweat and tears for Like the Psalm writers, we can lament and expose the falseness of the
our art. Maybe that makes us true artists. I really can't say. world around us. We can sing about the darkness and we can weep and
cause others to weep. But at the end of it all, if we are not sharing the light
Do you guys feel that music can bridge a gap spiritually, or do you feel and hope of Christ within the context of our art, then we are failing as
that it is purely a form of entertainment? Christian artists.
Well, I am Orthodox Christian, and for us such discussions are more about http://www.tsats-theresistance.blogspot.com/
"both/and" and not so much "either/or". There is nothing that humans do http://theysangastheyslew.bandcamp.com/
that is exclusively physical or exclusively spiritual. We are physical and http://www.leebozeman.com/
spiritual beings in totality and simultaneously. I can't compartmentalize http://allthingsbrightandbeautiful.bandcamp.com/
what I did as a rock musician on stage from who I am the rest of the week. http://orientishisname.com/
Likewise, I can't compartmentalize what I do at church from what I do on
stage or elsewhere. Our music is doing something, whether we want it to
or not, both to us and to those who listen. We are responsible for every
word that proceeds from our lips, and (I would add) every note that
screams from our amps. That being the case, in order for us to be living
authentically and consistently our music would have to somehow reveal
the truth of Christ within us. If I am singing lyrics that are totally out of sync
with what I believe, then perhaps there is something worth re-thinking
there. At one time TSATS was considering covering Depeche Mode's
"Blasphemous Rumors", simply because it was such a powerful song. But
how could I justify singing those words? How could I actually say such
angry things about God that I didn't feel or believe? That was a line that I
drew for myself. It would have rocked, but it would have failed to live up to
my own personal rule of authenticity.
What is the responsibility (if there is one) of an artist when it comes to

Christians playing music? What I mean is do you feel there is a
responsibility with message, content, etc. as it relates to faith?
Our relationship to Christ, which should be a transformational relationship

(one in which we are transformed by Christ), should inform our art. I would
stop short of suggesting any sort of standard for lyrics or content or style
or whatever. My priest has a saying that he uses: "Bless that which is
blessable." To be blessable, something must be able to be offered to God
in order that it might be made truly good. If what you do is blessable, then
it should be done in a way that it is consistent with our transformation in
Christ. I think of the scripture in James that questions whether both salt
water and fresh water can come from the same source (James 3:11).
Usually, this is used to correct
someone's tendency to use foul
language. I think that for Christian
musicians, our responsibility is to
be authentic. We need not write
hymns and we need not feel guilty
about writing loud or obnoxious
songs. But we should see that
everything that we do must be
informed by the transformation
25 DOWN THE LINE | LESLIE DUPRE-GRIMAUD
LESLIE DUPRE-GRIMAUD
in the webs of a weeping willow
Interview by Steve Ruff opportunity to showcase her voice and talents along with Kate Bush on a cassette player in
on the Subdivision Records label. front of him.
There is something that is really moving to me Married to Herb Grimaud Jr. of Stranger Kings Cafe Noire was a 4-track band. Mike played
about an emotionally charged female voice. I and Sound Gallery (as well as The Violet synthesizers, guitar, and drum machines. I
don’t know if the music industry is so Burning, Raspberry Jam and The was given free reign to sing, write lyrics, and
dominated by male vocalists that I just like a Kreepdowns), Leslie is hands down one of the write the vocal melodies. A truly great gift for
strong female vocalist when they come along, most powerful female vocalists that I can a small town girl who graduated from the dry
or maybe they bring something to the table think of…period! She was previously in the windy deserts of Yucca Valley CA.
musically that the guys just don’t have. I don’t band Café Noire where she defined their
know what it is exactly but I have always been sound with her haunting, deep and Cafe Noire evolved throughout its 5 year life
moved by people like Hope Sandoval, Kate mesmerizing vocal style. In addition to her span. My best friend, Danielle Mercado,
Bush, Annie Lenox, PJ Harvey and Jonnette music Leslie also has a intriguingly dark and would join the band playing bass, along with
Napolitano to just name a few. There is poetic style to her lyrics which describe and my twin sister Lorri Myers who would also
something mystical about a strong female detail the human condition in a very mystical sing. Later, Mel McGowan would join on
voice that is enhanced, broadened and and intensely profound manner. This is true guitar and bass and introduce me to the love
inspired by great music. art, music that motivates and moves from a of my life, the one & only Mr. Herb Grimaud,
very deep place. who was only 16 years old at the time.
Leslie DuPre-Grimaud has the kind of voice
that combines the strength of the above Can you give me a list of other artists you
mentioned artists and elevates it to a Can you give me a detailed history of Café have collaborated with, and what recordings
completely different level. I can say with all Noire…who was a member, when you guys you have been on?
honesty that I cannot think of anyone else started, who was in the band, songs/lyrics
that has the voice she does – she is that good. credit, etc? Musically I can't honestly say that I've
Her music accomplishes what few can in that collaborated with many artists over the years,
it is such a powerful thing that it feels almost In the fall of 1987 musician Mike Brown however I did collaborate with Derri
spiritual at times. When someone this good placed an ad in the local Recycler..."Looking Daugherty and Steve Hindalong on a 2 song
comes along I am surprised that they have not for a female singer influenced by Cocteau demo of my material "Monica" & "Who Was
broken out in some type of broader success. Twins and Kate Bush." I responded to the ad. It". It was a very wonderful, humbling
You’ve no doubt heard her voice in the Later Mike & I met for coffee at a Denny's experience and I'm so grateful that they
background on many of the artists that we restaurant. He was easy going and explained offered for free, their studio & time.
cover here at Down The Line. She has worked that he was looking for an artistic musical
with some of the best artists in the industry, collaboration with a female vocalist. I proved As far as recordings, I've been blessed to sing
but recently she has been given the to be that female collaborator by singing background vocals on:
LESLIE DUPRE-GRIMAUD | DOWN THE LINE 26
* At the Foot of the Cross Vol. 1 write? those moments when the guarded walls
* Honey - Lost on You unconsciously fall away. It's like traveling
* The Prayer Chain – Shawl I'm constantly writing and entertaining ideas through time. A flood of strength or great
* Raspberry Jam - Oceanic & their first demo on notebook paper. Problem is... all the static emotion never visible in my daily life takes
* The Violet Burning - Chosen & Demonstrates in my brain. TOO much traffic if you know over.
Plastic & Elastic what I mean. Sure, I'd like to share what I
* The Keepdowns - Take a Spin write, but only if it's effective and purposeful. In addition to your musical influences, are
* The Sound Gallery - Designed For Reading Writing is maddening in a way. I can think of there particular influences for you in
15 different ways to destroy a sentence. Case literature art and film? If so, can you
Vocally, who are your musical influences? and point : "She hissed, she haggled, she elaborate on those and why they are
howled..." "Was it a hiss? Or was it a howl? important?
My influences have always been the truly Was SHE haggling?" Maddening indeed.
compelling, gutsy, alto-rich vibratos of singers Literature... (smiles) Does Dr. Seuss count? I
such as Annie Lennox, Alison Moyet and Patsy Can you tell the story behind the lyrics for love rhymes, sounds and plays on words. He
Cline. They sing it like they mean it with a kind your last 2 songs, they are exceptionally was a huge influence in my tender years and
of conviction that sends written. no doubt still influences me today. I also enjoy
shivers down the ladder of your spine. Other reading L.M. Montgomery. Nowadays I'm
unique stylish artists such as Kate Bush, The story behind the lyrics for "Clover" was more prone to ransacking crime paperbacks
Elizabeth Fraser and inspired by feelings of fear and isolation. from the local grocery store than rifling
Lisa Gerrard convinced me to embrace the Some anger as well. That, and a ghostly black through endless isles at the local library.
vocal arts as an instrument. These individuals, & white dream I had running through a field
unique unto themselves, are riveting - the late at night, gave breath to the Art... Johannes Vermeer's painting 'Girl with a
mystery they create vocally is mesmerizing. song. I was so proud of Andy, Steve R, Jesse Pearl Earring' haunts me and is a favorite. I
Nason, and Herb on that second chorus. could have a conversation with those eyes.
Do you also write the music for your newest MAN... it was like the death-kick, inspiring!!! My twin sister's (Lorri J Myers) acrylic
tracks (Clover, Raven’s Song)? When I put the headphones on to record the paintings move me as well.
background vocals, they didn't have to tell me
Yes. All my material was written on my little to go for it because I was already there. Back Film favorites : "Somewhere in Time", "The
cheap keyboard in my office. I'm a huge fan of in that field of fire, the heavens blacker than Whole Wide World" and "Remains of the
transposing and simple chord progressions. black and pricked with stars. Day". I adore period pieces, I suppose they
Andy Prickett and Herb are responsible for the feed the romantic in me. I'm also fond of
production. Andy does a lot of the heavy "Raven's Song" came about quickly within 20 dusty Westerns with their panoramic wide
lifting (engineer, guitars, programming, etc). minutes with the help of my twin sister Lorri. open spaces, shoot-em' up justice and rustic
I'd be lost without their expertise. The song is about the desire to forget what's homesteads.
painful. Hence the line "Amnesia wrap me in
How is the recording for Locust coming your wings." That a person The David Lynch film "A Straight Story" with
along, and will that be along the same lines might do most anything to get away from actor Richard Farnsworth... talk about the
stylistically as your other tracks? I saw on emotional pain. They might steal or bleed or power of love! That movie means so many
your face book page that Andy and Herb had claw (self-medicate) just for the momentary different things to me, one in particular it
recorded drum tracks, what direction will the bliss of forgetting. reminds me to never underestimate others.
song be heading in musically?
Have you ever considered putting out songs Do you think it is possible that in the near
"Locust" is taking shape nicely. The song is by that are acapella? future your tracks "Monica" and "Who Was
all standards... a ballad. Musically and It" might end up on bandcamp along with
stylistically the approach will be familiar. Most definitely. Would love to. I've spoken to "Raven's Song" and "Clover"? Any chance
We're still working out ideas. What's best for Andy and Herb about it. I'm sure at some that any Cafe Noire material might get a re-
the song will ultimately take point we'll have something along those lines. release?
precedent, one of the many reasons why I
love working with Andy and Herb. Do you consider your music to be "art", or do "Monica" would be easy to get on bandcamp
you classify "art" and "music" separately? but "Who Was It" will need to be transferred
How do you define/categorize your music? from DAT to digital before we can do that. At
I view music as an artistic expression of one’s some point it will make it onto the site. We
I probably describe my music as visceral. I ideas, opinions, beliefs, etc. Therefore I would like to remaster both
want people to see the stories I'm telling consider art and music as one in the same. tracks before getting them online.
because that's what the songs are, they're
short stories about a time, place, an In my opinion your music is very comparable Regarding Cafe Noire, Herb recently got some
experience. I'd like listeners to see the to the people that you cited as musical of the tapes from Mike Brown to put on
smudge of the fingerprint left behind on the influences. Your voice is emotionally bandcamp. A friend of ours will do a little bit
glass, so to speak, but most importantly to charged, very rich and dense, and the mood of cleaning up on the cassettes before getting
relate to the song as if it were their own. I that comes through can be very dark and/or them online.
believe we've all drank from the same cup, very uplifting, both are great and very
our heartaches and even the trenches we've tangible when listening. Do you think that I know that Herb does "lists" and those are
dug. If I sing about the fractured spirit of a your music and the supernatural interact always fun... what are Your top 10 favorite
broken man I saw sitting alone on a bus bench with each other, or do you see them as albums?
and everything his weary shoulders told me separate entities?
about his life, I want people to see him too. Will a top 11 favorite songs do? Not
Because music is such a powerful force in my necessarily in this order (I'm sure there are
Lyrically, your approach is poetic, do you opinion there is little doubt that both plenty more. This is just off the top of my
write when you are not recording, and if so, coincide. As queer as it might sound to some, head):
have you ever thought of sharing what you when creating a song or recording it, I live for
27 DOWN THE LINE | OJO ON REISSUES
JOEY TAYLOR
TALKS TO DOWN THE LINE ABOUT ALL THE
CLASSIC REISSUES THAT ARE COMING OUT
There are so many great reissues that have example, and we don’t get paid for those catalogue. There are other artists who
come out in the last few months! Bands like sales. So legitimacy was a driving factor. legitimately own their own stuff too. At least
Crumbacher, Undercover, Bloodgood, going forward people can trust that the music
Vengeance Rising and so many more have had Second, once the decision was made to re- they buy from the Frontline artists and other
new life breathed into them and come out of release the catalogue, my long-time friend artists who may contract with Meis Music
the gates swinging with extra tracks, t-shirts Adel Meisenheimer who used to work at Group is being sold legitimately and that the
and even some bands playing again live! I Maranatha! Music and then as an right people are getting compensated for
have been curious for a good bit of time about independent publisher and administrator for those sales.
who owns what, will there be re-releases, and many, many other labels including
how the whole ball of wax comes together. I Brainstorm, was called in to oversee things. How will this actually affect the artists
was talking to Brian Healy one day and asked The new catalog is being released on her themselves, will they see any of the money?
him about it the Frontline re-issues, he told imprint, Meis Music Group. There was a
me to catch up with Joey Taylor and he could genuine desire on everyone’s part not only to Yes, the artists will see money, some of them
probably help me out. Thankfully, Ojo was all release the catalogue and make money, but for the first time. The decision was made in
in and was more than happy to explain the to put this in the larger context of serving the most cases to wipe out recoupment accounts
whole thing. In addition to having artists and using these releases to further (money the artists have to reimburse the label
Undercover’s Branded album reissued, Taylor their ministries and careers, whatever that for, for recording costs and other loans and
has also been busy playing another reunion might happen to be for each artist. The first advances they may have received, before they
show in January, teaching and now he is also contact we made with everyone had this can receive royalties) and increase royalty
heading up the artist relations department at purpose at the forefront. So it had a future rates so that the artists could start receiving
Meis Music Group. component to it too, not just backward- money right out of the gate, from the first
looking, historic or nostalgic. record sold, and at a rate higher than they
would have under their original deals. It was a
Who actually owns the Frontline catalog? Third, underlying all of this is the idea of good generous, genuine, and unilateral act of good
stewardship. Legal ownership cannot simply faith by the owners and administrators of the
As far as I understand things, Frontline was be usurped. The legal and rightful owners, label.
acquired by a gentleman by the name of writers, publishers, artists, distributors and
Buddy Killen a while back. Buddy died some other rightful partners are the ones Will all releases be pre-orders as the first few
years ago and the catalogue is now owned by responsible for overseeing the legitimate sales have?
the heirs of his estate. I did not know Buddy, of the music and they are the ones entitled to
and I have no ownership interest in this, but compensation. I know most of the fans don’t No, not all. Only some of the titles are being
have agreed to get involved only because I realize or understand the legal and business made available in CD format. Most will be
know so many of the artists, many of whom side of how this works, but when music is distributed and marketed digitally.
were working at the same time we were, and I distributed illegitimately, even when it looks
know and believe in the main people involved official or is done by the recording artists Do you own all the rights to the
in the re-release and I thought this was a good themselves, there are people whose Broken/Brainstorm catalog?
cause all the way around. economic and legal rights are being infringed
on. The rightful owners and administrators When I left Brainstorm Gene and I kind of
What was behind the decision to re-release are also forging alliances with other partners divided up the pie, so to speak. There are a
at this point? to find more ways to market the music, get it number of titles from the Broken / Brainstorm
placed in television and film for example, so catalogue that I own and the rest Gene’s
I think there was a situation where there were stewardship is another important driver. estate owns. Some of that will be re-released
all of these great album masters and songs legitimately. Branded for example, is being re-
basically sitting around not doing any good for Will the entire catalog be re-released? released this month as a 25th Anniversary
anyone. At the same time once the whole Special Edition on Innocent Media, the label I
digital distribution thing started spreading and I don’t know that every single title will be started after I left Brainstorm, administered
file-sharing and all, many of the albums were released, but most of them will be. Even as by Adel and Meis Music. I think over the next
being illegitimately sold and shared online and we speak, most of the titles have been put year a number of those Brainstorm titles
when that happens, even if it’s being done by into the system digitally and are available on including all the Undercover stuff will see the
the artists themselves, there are people who iTunes. Another component of this of course light of day again also. Gene’s father and I
should be getting paid who aren’t. That list is making sure all the illegitimate distribution have a good relationship and the same
could include the artists themselves, the channels are ordered to take down their motivation for legitimacy and stewardship
rightful owners of the masters, people who unauthorized streaming and downloading holds for both of us as well.
may have played on the album who are operations. Again, sometimes that includes
entitled to a royalty, songwriters, and the artists and their websites themselves. Not Who does actually own the rights to Adam
publishers. I know that there are sites that always, because some of the artists like Again’s catalog?
make Undercover’s catalogue available, for Tourniquet, genuinely own their whole
OJO + LESLIE DUPRE-GRIMAUD + CRUMBÄCHER | DOWN THE LINE 28
That’s a good question and I’m not sure I’m

the right guy to answer that one. As far as I
know, Gene sold all the Adam Again masters
to Buddy Killen a long time ago. I don’t know [CRUMBÄCHER CONTINUED]
if that included all of the Adam Again records
or just a few. There are some Adam Again
recordings though, like The Broken Christmas,
management and educating them about all avenues of promotion for their music
owned jointly by Gene’s estate and me, that
were not part of that sale. The ones you see
while retaining their rights and publishing. Being a musician myself, I understand the
come out on the Meis Music Group imprint need to create and how fulfilling that process is. We try to help as many artists as we
though are the ones that they own and again, can in their pursuit of being a career musician.
people can trust that those are legitimate
sales. I also ran a non-profit, Open Arms – a community house in Grand Terrace, CA. The
purpose of the house was to be a resourceful place for young adults by inviting them
into our lives, providing a living space to those who needed it – and showing how
I want to thank Ojo for taking the time out of
service to others could help make a difference in themselves and others. The most we
his super busy schedule to fill us in on what is
happening with the reissues. This does
had living in the house was 15 people at a time! We had to shut it down in 2009 due
however bring me to a very valid concern that to lack of funding. It was a rewarding experience. I still maintain a strong relationship
I would like to address. The music that we with many of my "kids" and appreciate the opportunity to be "mom" to so many over
cover here at Down The Line is important to the past few years.
so many people. The industry has typically http://www.facebook.com/openarms1. I now live with my parents at their ministry
been slanted towards the label, especially house, Missionary Kids Ministries. I enjoy helping them in their ministry to MK's as
years ago when the whole business was so well. My brother, Jimmy Wisner is also very involved in helping with that ministry.
different. These are important artists,
important releases and a lot of work has gone
into these albums for a long time. PLEASE, do
Christopher: I'll let the other guys tell you what they are doing. I'm still working in
what is right and purchase these albums. music, Big thanks to my wife Benilda, who puts up with my bulls**t. Sometimes I
Don’t rip, burn, copy and share these with make money, sometimes I don't. I am currently writing and producing music for ABC
your friends. It is long past time that these television. I used to have a band (after Crumbächer) with Dawn called Almost Ugly
artists get the proper compensation due for (Now available on iTunes) That was a blast! Oh yeah, writing ABC stuff with Dawn’s
their work and their art. It is a different day son Chris Ryan currently, keeping it in the family!
and age when it comes to technology, but use
the available tools for something positive and
Is there a place for people to go and donate to help cover expenses, as well as to
help to put the money back in the pockets of
the artists.
donate to the Lifequest Romanian Revolution ministry?
http://www.meismusicgroup.com We would love for people to donate to help cover expenses that were not met. We
will have merchandise and show memorabilia available soon on our websites for a
donation. Donations will cover show expenses and the proceeds will go to Romanian
Revolution ministry.
Go to: www.take2productions.net or www.lifequestorganic.com for more

[DUPRE-GRIMAUD CONTINUED] information.
www.crumbacher.com
* Jorge Reyes "Plight" www.myspace.com/crumbacher
* Tones on Tail "Burning Skies" www.take2productions.net
* Hunters & Collectors "Talking to a Stranger"
* Gary Numan "Cars"
* Yaz "Winter Kills"
* The Innocence Mission "Black Sheep Wall"
* Dave Gahan "Saw Something"
* Depeche Mode "Nothing's Impossible"
* Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds "The Ship Song"
* The National "Bloodbuzz Ohio"
* 16 Horsepower "Burning Bush"
Anything that you would like to add that I

might have missed or that you want people
to know?
I like Boston Baked Beans candies.
subdivisiontheory.com/leslie-dupre-grimaud/
http://lesliedupregrimaud.bandcamp.com/
29 DOWN THE LINE | SUNGRAZERR
SUNGRAZERR fuzzing out near the black bunny haven

You might recall that we reviewed a new LOVE metal! Is there a website or a place to and screen printing company, so it just kind of
Subdivision Records band named Sungrazerr purchase those tunes, and can you give me a fit. I recorded the songs in my ThunderDen,
last issue. I am completely infatuated with the little background on the band (who, where, which is my own little studio, then the EP was
sounds that come from this new act, and can how long, releases, etc.)? done and online. Those dudes said they were
honestly say that this is as new, fresh and stoked on it and now it's a part of Subdivision.
unique as it gets. Subdivision has released Yes… Mammoth Thunderpower, we've been With the digital age upon us it can be that
some great stuff recently and I hope that they doing it for almost two years now, but the last easy. I'd like to think that all the homemade
continue long into the future. I had a chance year has been more serious. We are basic, mac and cheese that I made Andy was the
to catch up with the man behind the music, heavy, hard slower metal. There are no real reason. He just wants food from me, so
Dean Tompkins, and we got along really well releases as of now, but I'd say within the next he keeps something over my head.
talking about Sungrazerr, his other interests, six months we will be putting something out
and the mighty genre of heavy metal which ourselves. The roster is me, Timm Nasario I didn’t know Eric had a clothing & screen
we both love and is actually miles apart from Daza (tattooist extraordinaire), Dylan Hake, printing company…?
the work he releases in Sungrazerr. Aaron Luckett and Chris Waffle. I guess you
probably want our band names huh? Our Eric has a company called Manta Rae. In the
Dean is a native of California and lives in Costa band names are Deanstroyer, Sir Maximus past 6 months I have been adding my two
Mesa with his wife and his son who is nearing Thunder, Boy Thunder, Salt and Pepper cents to move it into a new direction. We do a
the two year mark. After hearing the sonically Leopard, and The Chrispocalypse. We have a line of tees, just cool designs, and we also do
warm and vibrant sounds of Sungrazerr I face book page and all that and it's honestly contract printing with damn good prices if you
pegged Dean for a indie/shoe gaze kind of the most fun I've ever had in a band. ask me! We aim to try to help out bands with
guy, but his scope is much broader than that. their merch. People don't realize how
If you haven’t checked out the Subdivision How did you come to be on the Subdivision important merch is in keeping your band
roster you really should, it has got to be the label? afloat. That is YOUR money, not the labels
best newer label that is out there, and their money, and the profit margin is great, so we
acts are top notch! I feel that I got really lucky with that man. I do like package deals and try to help out
mean (this is gonna sound really funny) it's bands (or any company for that matter). A
like a dream come true. I grew up with Andy couple hundred bucks gets you shirts and
Have you played in any other bands or is as a mentor, I guess for lack of a better buttons and all that. If you don't know about
Sungrazerr the first? mentor.… (haha no, no I'm kidding). Andy was screen printing and the whole process, you
best friends with my brother growing up so he can end up spending a lot of money on crap
Sungrazerr is actually a side project that I basically taught me how to play guitar. I and feel in the dark. We are just trying to give
started with Dylan Hake. Dylan has played always liked his music but I was more of a a little back.
with a bunch of bands from Telegram to Set hardcore kid. I would raise hell at Prayer Chain
to Sea to Moi, and Dylan is also the drummer shows...looking back I was so lame...jumping Where do you draw your inspiration, and
for Mammoth Thunderpower which is our off of the PA speakers into the crowd and what other bands do you consider to be an
70's metal band that we do. It’s our main taking out some poor girl who was really influence on Sungrazerr?
project, just good old slow dark heavy metal. worshipping and crying in the front row. I
It's the greatest thing ever man...so, already knew Andy and Eric and I bonded over Sungrazerr is about feelings... emotions....
Sungrazerr was something I had always skateboards and aliens. Then you know, you .Andy really got me into the whole "music is a
wanted to do because of my love for effects grow up and life happens. We lost touch for a drug" thing and I wanted to see if I could
pedals. Dylan was a perfect fit, however he few years and when we did start talking again really push that. Can I listen to a song and
can get a bit busy with school, so the first EP is my musical tastes had expanded and so had have my brain really, honestly make me feel
all me pretty much. So I guess to get back to theirs. So, we would send songs back and high? I mean, that's what we are all chasing
your question, I also play in Mammoth forth, you know, turning each other onto new anyways right? The next high? Be it love,
Thunderpower. As far as past bands… ehhhh, bands and such. I ended up kind of helping acceptance, instant gratification or whatever
just grand ideas and fill in spots in other manage some of the bands Andy has gets you off. Each song has its own different
peoples bands. produced with Northern and started coming feeling or emotion due to whatever state of
around his circles more. I also started helping mind I was in while I was writing it.
Mammoth Thunderpower huh??? Yeah, I Eric a little bit with Manta Rae, his clothing
SUNGRAZERR | DOWN THE LINE 30
I had the IPod on shuffle a while ago and your ears stop working and you start to feel this one building that has a sign that says
“Humb” by The Prayer Chain came on. I then the music in your chest. It’s not for the weak, HAVEN on it...and a black bunny rabbit. No
realized that that song alone may have that’s for sure. joke man, it makes no sense at all, like is that
planted this fuzz/drone seed in me. I also going to entice you to live that that place? I'll
listen to Suicide, French Drain, and I love The Will Sungrazerr ever have vocals or will you send you a picture of it. So I made up a story
Sound Gallery stuff, it can be so haunting and always be primarily the noise band that you that it's some twisted bunny clone ranch and
delicate at the same time....Herb is rad. are? maybe the song is the programming inside of
the head of one of the clones. That's not
So the whole “music is a drug” that Andy got Ha! You know I had this conversation last strange at all is it? (hehe). The sound you first
you into… can you elaborate on that concept night actually. The simple answer is "sure, hear is a noise box that was custom made by
a bit? why not". There are no rules for Sungrazerr, the TONEBUTCHER.
I'm just going where it takes me because it's (www.tonebutcher.com).He actually makes
Music is a drug…yes indeed. There is a book art. I may do some fuzzy country songs next or most of my pedals and noise makers and fixes
called "This is your Brain on Music", and Andy it may die tomorrow. and rebuilds all of my amplifiers .I'm an all
turned me onto it. It basically explains that tube man, it takes some maintenance when
the human brain processes music like it Any other projects that came before you push them to 11 all the time.
processes drugs, the same chemical change Sungrazerr that are available?
happens. So think about it, think about how On the track “Elephants” there are noises
different music makes you feel different ways. No not really...well there is something called that I cannot even identify, what do you use
It can totally hype you up, or totally drag you Unicurse, but I don't know if I'm allowed to to create the soundscapes that the listener
down. Your mood can make you crave talk about it. hears?
different types of music.
So, what/who/huh is Unicurse? Since you You know that was my first Sungrazerr song
It has actually changed the whole way I listen don’t know if you can talk about it, I feel that I had a collaborator on. Miles Rogers,
to all types of music, especially when you go compelled to ask. who makes music under the moniker
see bands play. There is always some band "Rainsword" (gonna be huge in the electronic
playing that you don't know or haven’t heard Unicurse is a darker project with some people. music world), he did some of the effects on it.
before. If you can't get some sort of Secrecy is something that is lost in today's He's a bit more digitally savvy than me and I
enjoyment from them, or some sort of world. You can find out anything about lean towards the analog. So really I don't
something, just bail. It's not worth it. Why anyone at anytime and it’s sad really. People know what he did with some of those sounds,
take a drug that you aren't into? If you came can let you know when they check into the but I also don't want to know. I do know that
and saw Sungrazerr and weren't into it, I yogurt shop…weird huh? So secret bands and his house is right under where the airplanes
would hope you would leave for your sanity. It secret societies are fun for us, that’s about all take off from a local Airport. He records all
wouldn't offend me. I can say. kinds of good stuff and speeds it up, slows it
down, and he also makes a lot of his own
How do you describe the sound of Are there new Sungrazerr tracks and tunes in effects pedals. He's rad man and he just
Sungrazerr? the works? turned 18, crazy right?
Fuzzy...um....yeah....really, really fuzzy...... Yep....Working on a few covers of doo-wop What is in your ipod/turntable/cd player
deep huh? songs....no joke. Maybe gonna make a right now?
mixtape...you know, keep it street. Definitely
What is the process for writing the music and going to work some live drums into the Tonight I was listening to the new Telegram
how you bring it all together? mix…by the way, I will NOT do some fuzzy EP, the new Crocodiles album, Russian
country now that I think about it. Circles....also the new Dimmu Borgir album.
Geez… it may be anything from a sound of a There's a French Drain cassette tape in my
certain pedal, to a mood, ya know? I try not to Working on doo-wop covers??? Sounds very player right now (drone stuff)...and I'm really,
rush it and really just do it when the feeling interesting…any idea when that may come really into JBAP. They're Subdivision people
inspires me. It's always different so I might out? too and I'm curious to hear what’s next from
record some cool sounds outside, or from one them.
of my sons toys with my phone. Then mic it Yep, doo wop covers. I love that type of music
and play it through a fuzz pedal...or I may and I've always wanted to be in a cover band So who are your top 10 favorite metal acts…
have a little story in my head and I'll lay down that kind of rocked out doo wop covers. I and top 10 favorite other bands as well?
a bass or guitar track and then just layer them think we'd be a hit on the wedding
up. circuit…but yeah, Sungrazerr doo wop....slow, Ok so top Ten Metal Bands....
fuzzy....it's really fun actually. I'll say they will hmmm...so it would span anything that falls
Are you the sole member of Sungrazerr, or maybe be out in a month or less. I usually under metal…okay:
are there other people involved? release one song at a time and then group (besides Mammoth Thunderpower of course)
them together as an album or whatever. I'm
Sungrazerr is my child but there are lots of very impatient and it's so easy to put stuff on 1. Motley Crue
people who make up Sungrazerr. As of right bandcamp. 2. Black Sabbath
now it's mainly me and Dylan, but it’s an open 3. Iron Maiden
door policy. Can you give me the history behind the song 4. Dio
“Black Bunny Haven”? Where did the name 5. Guns N Roses
Do you play live or are there plans to play and the inspiration for the song originate? 6. Dimmu Borgir
live at any point? 7. Sleep
Hahaha. It's kind of an inside joke between 8. Pentagram
We've only played live a few times with some my wife and I. We live on the Westside of 9. Goatsnake
loops pedals, an extra guitarist, a laptop, cool Costa Mesa which is a very ethnically diverse 10. Pistolero
lights and a wall of amplifiers. I wouldn't use area. There's an apartment building in a
the word "loud" because there's a point when somewhat rough area, and we always drive by Behemoth and Graveyard would be 11 and 12

31 DOWN THE LINE | DAVID DI SABATINO
David di Sabatino:
“A follow up conversation: “Intent of the heart is everything”
Interview by Steve Ruff from the art which is something you must do destruction of the lives and careers of those
to understand this story. who’d drawn close to him and knowingly
Sometimes when we do interviews here at ostracizing his very own child. And as I dug, I
Down the Line we don’t always come across Another group of people want to settle in to found that this behavior was happening as
as clear and concise as we intend, or that familiar Christianese zone where all of us early as the late 1960s but got progressively
sometimes it is not as clear and concise as the are sinners, and so, we shouldn’t look at worse and worse and things spiraled
interviewee would intend or be happy with. anyone else’s sin different from our own. downward. Having listened to people wonder
Obviously we interview people whose work …we’re all fallen. …we all do bad things. …and aloud at the dissonance between the image
we appreciate and find merit in, but God still loves us all anyway. And thus, Larry he projected and fought so desperately to
sometimes we like to offer a bit more insight Norman was a mixed bag, broken like the rest maintain and the gravity of the actions that
and depth into a subject. Thus was the case of us and was trying to do good but he fell were visited upon people he deemed his
with David di Sabatino from our last short of the mark. enemies, I took the notion raised by the
interview. David’s films on Larry Norman and hawks seriously, that Larry Norman was either
Lonnie Frisbee have been the subject of much This isn’t that storyline either. a man who lost the narrative thread of
debate and speculation, even to the point of whatever resonance he had with the Christian
attack and accusation. We are not drawing From the beginning there were people in my message, or he was someone who embraced
any lines in the sand here, just trying to offer ear that were very hawkish about Larry that image as a wolf in sheep’s clothing to con
again a bit more insight into a two complex Norman. They believed that he was an the faithful. And I present that as one of the
films that encompasses just as much from an outright fraud projecting a false image to a themes in the movie, but my title for the
artistic standpoint as they do a spiritual bunch of people too awestruck to ask tough piece tells you where I lean.
standpoint. Hopefully we offer a bit more questions about behavior that was at best
depth here in addition to what we ran in the contradictory to his message and at worst was The word “fraud,” however, is a slippery one
last issue as well…think of this as the downright despicable and evil. Ultimately, so and needs some elaboration. It conjures up
companion piece. these hawks suggest, he was conning his images of someone who is knowingly conning
audience out of their money and a position of and duping, that they have from the
From one of our emails you said, “Also...my influence. Not a particularly nice line of beginning sat down and orchestrated the ruse
docs aren’t pussyfooting around. I am raising thinking, but when faced with the with a full and conscious intent to beguile. I
the possibility that Larry Norman was a testimonies, when faced with a neglected think this may be too shallow an observation.
fraud…” So along that line of thinking, child, when faced with a mother whose family I think this story is much more complex than
obviously Norman didn’t practice what he was turned upside down, you start to believe that.
preached or what he confessed to believe, so that something was really off here.
where is the dividing line that makes him a Larry Norman was a very confused man. I take
fraud, or just another person who chooses to As I began interviewing, the typical storyline it some sort of traumatic event triggered this
go after what he wants instead of living by was that there was almost complete and utter sort of behavior since it is out of tremendous
what he knows is right? Maybe also, how dissonance between what he was saying on pain that you settle in to such a world of your
would you define the term fraud? stage and the image he was projecting to his own making. And I think that his confusion
fans and how we lived his life once he got blurred the lines of responsibility. In his head
I realize that a lot of those looking in cannot down from that stage. Let’s give the most he was always the victim, even though it was
understand how a guy that could write such glaring example in the movie. Rock stars obvious to anyone on the other end of his
music that stirred the heart toward God could having babies out of wedlock is not a actions that he was very much the
possibly be called a “fraud.” And that is the particularly shocking revelation. But what is perpetrator. That doesn’t excuse the
problem. It is a tough story to tell precisely difficult to fathom is the amount of effort to behavior, or even make it explainable, but I
because you almost had to experience the push his own child and his mother away and think in his own confused way he believed he
darkness to understand this might even be to cast aspersions upon anyone that dared was being sincere and doing the right thing. In
possible. And none of us want to believe it question this or other confounding behavior. his mind, he was the evangelistic troubadour
possible because, well, who wants to live in And he did this over and over and over again who went around the world spreading God’s
such a dark and cynical zone. So, for some, I in every situation where he was faced with love. And he spent a lot of time telling you
guess it is easier to believe this all a grand taking any responsibility for his actions. this in his liner notes and Phydeauxgrams to
conspiracy, that we have all lost our minds his fan base. All the actions he visited upon
and are spreading lies and gossip about Larry So, when faced with this kind of behavior, anyone that threatened to (or those whom he
Norman. That denial in the face of such meaty what other word do you have? Larry Norman thought were going to) upset his carefully
evidence is really difficult to stomach. These got up on stage night after night singing songs constructed reality were in some means a way
folks simply are unable to separate the artist with lines like “without love, you are nothing” of preserving the good that he did while up on
all the while he was also plotting the stage. The problem for those of us on the
DAVID DI SABATINO | DOWN THE LINE 32
other end of his, let’s call it “Larry Norman’s Now, nobody with any sense thinks that these Lonnie was naïve in many ways. He was sort
survival mode,” were experiencing what can people get away with anything. I didn’t do this of a holy fool upon whom God poured out his
only be described as evil. documentary because I felt that Larry had led spirit. He had a sincere desire to bring people
a charmed life or had gotten away with the to a God encounter. The sins he committed
What’s all the more strange is that because ruse. Nobody gets away with anything, and were consensual. And he paid the ultimate
some (certainly not all) evangelical Christians anyone that sews this kind of discord is a price for his sin by having to check out early at
have bought into this sort of Faustian deal person in a lot of pain who continues to heap age 40.
that posits as long as these imbalanced more pain on themselves the more they act
characters are ultimately bringing people to this way. One of the great lines in M. Scott I have no idea what Larry Norman’s
the Lord and sewing a positive message, none Peck’s book People of the Lie describing the motivation was. I know what he said about
of the other stuff matters. I remember inner life of sociopathic behavior is that those himself, but this is a very dark Machiavellian
speaking with a guy who Larry obviously looking for vengeance need to realize there is character whose wheels are constantly
wronged very badly, and this guy swore me to no temporal hell they could dream up to moving to thwart others and to hide his
secrecy because he didn’t want to hurt Larry punish these “people of the lie” worse than tracks.
Norman’s ministry. When I pushed him and the one that goes on every day in their heads.
inquired whether he thought keeping These are tortured individuals whose self- 3. For me as a viewer, I see Lonnie as one
someone’s lie to extend God’s kingdom was a loathing is off the charts. But, while you want person with a particular set of circumstances,
little bit backwards, the fellow broke off to have compassion for them, in no way does and Norman as a different person with an
communication with me. And I wonder how it justify their behavior or give them the right entirely different set of circumstances. The
keeping the silence helped Jennifer Robinson to silence others who simply wish to say that differences are vast and really the way I see
when she phoned up CCM magazine and told these things occurred. it their stories do not have much in common
them about Daniel and how she needed to other than they both professed Christ. What
speak with Larry and get medical information. So, the best you can say is that the good that I mean by that without going too deep into
Larry wasn’t returning her calls, but the he did to draw people to a closer relationship explanation is that Lonnie found Jesus and
powers that be at CCM magazine put them in with God cannot be taken away from him, no wanted to be used and share the news,
contact with one another. And the very next matter how many doubts one might have whereas it seems Norman found Jesus and
year when Larry released his Home at Last about his sincerity. But the darkness that he wanted to capitalize on that and take what
album, they put Larry on the cover and said put his hand toward to derail people’s lives is he wanted in the process, regardless of who
nothing about the child. of such vile nature that there is no other got hurt. Kind of different issues, different
conclusion other than he was a sociopath reasons and therefore different
Getting back to the word “fraud,” this might whose actions offstage almost totally responses…does that make sense? Can you
help explain the situation a bit. I recently saw contradicted everything he spoke about on explain from the director’s point of view if
a movie called Who is Clark Rockefeller? about stage. That is what I found when I went down you agree or disagree, and how that affected
a man who posed as a relative of the famous this rabbit hole. I am sorry that some wish this your slant on both films?
American family, and who managed to keep weren’t true and would rather believe that
the charade for more than a decade before myself or Mr. Stonehill have gone looney I once told Larry that he reminded me a lot of
his wife finally caught on and turned him over tunes. But that is the only way that I can make Lonnie Frisbee. At the time, well before I had
to the authorities. The ending of the movie sense of all the evidence that I found. any inclination to document these lives, I
shows a scene where the exposed man sits in meant that like Lonnie, Larry seemed to me a
jail repeating over and over something to the I get that nobody enjoys hearing about this guy that couldn’t see his own blind spots.
affect of that he never meant to hurt anybody stuff. I didn’t want it to be true either. And Larry went ballistic on me.
and that he had done everything to help the evangelical Christian culture has a number
others. of idiosyncrasies that all convince them that I think there were a few similarities that I
truth-telling of this nature is a bad thing to do wasn’t thinking of when I first said that.
If you had come across this fellow during his no matter what the reasons. I honestly had no
heyday, he would have been completely idea that the story held this kind of ending, When I first started the Larry story, I felt the
immersed in his Rockefeller persona, so much and we tried just about everything we could stories would be very much the same. I don’t
so that the lines between reality and fiction to persuade Larry to simply come forward and know if this is just my own personal
were completely blurred. Somewhere along answer some of this stuff. Following hard obtuseness, but when I first spoke with Randy
the line, this man actually starts to believe his after the truth no matter where it leads you is Stonehill, I told him how I wanted to find the
own lie. In his mind, he is Clark Rockefeller. not pretty sometimes. But the facts remain. parallel to King David in Larry’s life and do the
And he will take offense to anyone that tries This story is much worse than the Mike same thing for him that I found in the Lonnie
to take that delusion away. In fact, he might Warnke story. narrative, a man after God’s own heart that
even resort to the most heinous of crimes to struggled with some pretty heinous sin. I
make sure that nobody ever finds out his lie. You also said in the email, “I think Matt remember Randy just looking at me. I should
The lie becomes reality, and that lie must be raised an excellent question. Why am I falling have really taken that to heart. Because it just
preserved at all costs. over to support Lonnie and throwing knives wasn’t the same story. So I didn’t try to make
at Larry. FINALLY, someone with the right it what it wasn’t. I just tried to tell what I
What’s saddest of all is they deceive question for me. That is a valid question…one found.
themselves into believing the lie is helping that has a very well thought out answer as
people. So when you or anyone else comes to well.” Can you tell me the answer and I remember being on the phone with my
say, “Hey, this is all a lie,” they look at you like expound on it? friend Sam from Toronto and saying to him
you have two heads and wonder aloud why how distraught I was that this story was so
you cannot see how good they are and how Very simply, the intent of these two men’s dour and dark. And he said, “You don’t even
much help they are to everyone. hearts were completely and utterly different. want him to be this bad.” And I didn’t. One of
Frighteningly, the conclusion they draw is that Look at the stories of Cain and Abel or King the things that really bugs me about the lies
you yourself are evil for wanting to stop all Saul and King David. God judges the intent of that are being spread about my motivation is
the help they are giving to others, and it is you the heart and makes a differentiation based how much effort Pamela and I put in to trying
that must be destroyed. on that. to get Larry to come on and admit some of
this stuff. We were fighting for this to have a
33 DOWN THE LINE | DAVID DI SABATINO + SUNGRAZERR
much better ending than this miasma that the Evangelicals love to say that all sin cuts us off Larry continued to lie to this kid. And I have
family has raised. Wouldn’t it have been great from relationship with God, and that may be no idea why or what the reasons in his head
to have Larry explain some of this stuff, and true in a generic sense. But we forget to were. But I do know that this behavior is so
just say he was sorry? I mean, isn’t that what follow through on the entire picture of sin, far outside the boundaries that it should raise
the essence of the faith is? And if what others and fail to mention that there are very huge questions about who he said he was.
who spoke with Larry are telling me is true, I different temporal repercussions. Committing And if you think that God is on the side of the
think he wanted to do it at some points, but adultery is not the same as cheating on your argument that we should silence this story
those waiting in the wings to take over the taxes by claiming that you made $75k instead rather than get behind a broken-hearted
“family business” talked him out of it. They of $105k. In the former, innocents could be mother and abandoned child, then I will tell
were convinced they were going to stop me irreparably harmed as could both marriages. you that you are seriously deluded. And I
from using the music and his image in the In the latter, you might have to pay a fine. Are invite you to come with me and sit in a room
film. When that didn’t happen, Plan B was to those two sins really the same? In a very with Daniel Robinson and Jennifer Wallace
slur the people that were behind this. surface sense, yes, you broke the law. But the and listen of what they experienced. God is
gravity of those two actions are very different always on the side of the oppressed and the
Back to your question, yes, after a while I and they carry with them two very different victim. Always.
became very aware that this was a King Saul repercussions.
narrative, someone who had been given a www.lonniefrisbee.com
position for a short season but was taken Most parents will have come up against this www.fallenangeldoc.com
away from them because of lack of character. situation, one where the child has done
And instead of regrouping or making amends, something wrong and the parent has to “get
he spends his days trying to mess up the lives to the bottom of it.” You question the child,
of the people with whom he worked all the listen to the answers and make your judgment
while pretending he is doing nothing of the accordingly. A child with peanut butter [SUNGRAZERR CONTINUED]
sort for his ever decreasing coterie of fans smeared all over their face professing
who are desperate to believe the bulls**t he innocence poses a bigger problem than one
continues to package and repackage. with a clean face who admits stealing a lick. Okay, now the top ten bands... ??? Damn,
that’s gonna be rough…let’s see:
The Frisbee film will continue to be an Intent of the heart is everything. And many
inspiration to people. Fallen Angel is a times, as humans, we can’t see this. That is 1. Motley Crue
cautionary tale that will make you sad. But it why people are loathe to judge a situation 2. The Clash
needed to be done just the same. I just follow because of the difficulty to sometimes discern 3. Jawbreaker
the storyline where it takes me. what Gollum might call “tricksy” people. But 4. Oasis
we make a mockery of Jesus’s statements 5. Smashing Pumpkins
Also, I was very interested to hear you when we say that his line to “Judge not lest ye 6. Slade
expound on what you said here… “we really be judged” was advocating some amoral 7. The Murder City Devils
need to stop lumping all sins together. Not standoff that puts us all at an inability to say 8. Jane's Addiction
all sins are created equally...as our good anything about what anybody does. That is 9. Gorilla Biscuits
Catholic brothers will tell us...as the Bible just not what he is saying there. 10. Russian Circles
suggests (with the sin against the Holy Spirit
that is deemed unforgivable).” Can you To the contrary, Jesus’s import is that when Also, there's new stuff up on bandcamp... not
elaborate on this? you make such judgments, do so by complete but almost there...
remembering that you too are susceptible, http://sungrazerr.bandcamp.com/
Many things point this out to us. If we are that you too are human, that there but for the
followers of Scripture, we get an inkling of it grace of God go you and/or me. And when I also want to give thanks and props to the
with statements like, “There are seven things you remember that you too are human, you following people for their part in helping me
the Lord hates, and six things that are an will then be in the right frame of mind to help out and hooking me up with gear:
abomination.” Or like I said above, that there someone see clearly by helping them remove
is such a thing as the “unpardonable sin” tells the speck in their eye instead of blinding them Tonebutcher Pedals
us that not all sins are of equal gravity. with a fist to the eye. Armor Gold Cables
Jon Baxter Pickups
Also, if we believe that reason (or common In our situation we watched as Larry twisted
sense) plays a part in our spiritual lives, as one this child in the wind for years before he died, and of course my wife...
of the pillars by which the Spirit teaches us, even promised him on more than one
then it seems obvious that jaywalking is of a occasion that he would make things right in http://www.subdivisiontheory.com/sungrazer
much lesser gravity than is murder. Our entire his will. And we were hoping for the best, that r/
system of law is governed by weighing crimes Larry would come around and do the right http://www.subdivisiontheory.com/
based upon intent. If you premeditate murder thing. I remember speaking with Daniel http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/mammo
it is called “first degree” and carries a much before he went and met Larry in the UK in th-thunderpower/109386615766279
more serious punishment than does 2008, trying to help him put his mind in the
manslaughter. best frame of reference to deal with such a
difficult situation. But for whatever reason,
BILL MALLONEE | DOWN THE LINE 34
has been inspiring. But never have we felt so

displaced and uprooted, hence "Drifter
Songs."
The road has always held a certain fascination

and lure for me. When I was very young, I
remember even then, sensing a deep
unresolved melancholy in the universe every
time my folks would saddle up an old Valiant
station wagon, pile us kids in and take off for
some destination. The play of light, speed and
changing topography all lent themselves to a
world that needed "filling in" with my
imagination. What kind of town was this?
Who worked in that diner over there? Who
ate there daily? What sort of stories were told
there?
And that old, abandoned farm house? How

did it fall on hard times? What sort of ghosts
and stories peopled it now? Things of wonder
like that. All bathed in the golden light of day
or the more lonely neon colors of the night.
Much later on, as a recording artist and

touring musician, I began logging 180 shows a
year, pushing record after record at the grass-
roots level. A dingy club here, a crap-hole bar
there, a late night diner, a Super 8 later on. A
decade at that pace passed very quickly it
seems. But I got to know America. It put real
faces in the real places that previously, I had
only known by my imagination. I heard (and
overheard) all kinds of stories and tales;
Sometimes it was news that called for
rejoicing. Sometimes it was stories of
heartbreak and woe that only a sympathetic
ear and shoulder to cry on was all one could
offer. America. She will surprise you with her
resiliency.
So I chiseled these images and feelings in

notebooks...and tried to sing about them in
an honest, believable way. Because the folks
who've been forced to walk a more crooked
and rugged mile deserve your honor and
respect. They are the "saints" who won't likely
BILL MALLONEE ever have a TV camera turned on them at the

6 o'clock news, but their quiet testimonials of
hard work, perseverance, kindness, and
“With two new and impressive recordings released, Bill goodwill are (I believe) what "make this world
catches us up in his own words” go 'round." That's what I saw, that's what I
learned and that's what's here, on some level,
in "Drifter Songs."
Here at Down The Line we really enjoy having thought it would be cool to get Bill to talk
contributing writers. When it comes to great about the music and the inspiration behind As a "band in a van," I think we felt an ever
writers and musicians, Bill Mallonee still tops what we hear. If you haven’t already checked increasing gratitude that there was something
that list… heck, he defines that list and sets out Mallonee’s new website, stop by and give or Some One anchoring our lil' ship to the
the standard. Mallonee’s output is the most it a look. Make sure to check out his band good earth; an earth full of all its trials,
prolific out of anyone I can think of in the camp site as well where you can purchase (at betrayals and hardships. We soldiered on, and
industry. He still cranks out an unparalleled seriously inexpensive prices) all of his ramped up 15 albums in 10 years. We took in
amount of songs that offer up a dusty, sweat recordings in every format available. the scenery and the lives of the countless
of the brow slice of American life and history, folks we played for. We made friends and
as well as introspective songs about his life DRIFTER SONGS – WPA VOLUME 9 sensed their goodwill. Now, as a solo artist, it
and all that encapsulates the human seems even more poignant in these uncertain
experience. There is poetry to Bill’s music, and This is the first batch of songs I've released days. And uncertainty is the heart of a drifter.
it carries over into what he writes as well. since moving to Santa Fe, NM last September.
Since he has just released two great Muriah and I had been homeless during a 9 As a songwriter, and student of American
recordings, Drifter Songs WPA Volume 9 and week tour of the US last Summer. The history, I began to see the ties and similarities
Ti Jean - Hearts Crossing the Center Line, I southwest and high desert terrain we live in with the heroes of older days who forged
35 LIVE REPORT | BILL MALLONEE
their way across this county, made new And (of course) pray for more grace for most influential writer of the 20th century, can
towns, planted farms, fostered new tomorrow. be dangerous waters for readers. He labored
businesses, raised families...and of course lost That's what the road and the good folks I've in obscurity over a period of almost 12 years
a great deal along the way. The losses of met taught me. during which time he wrote almost all his
today's heroes are no less heavy than those books, before finally being recognized as a
endured by the good folks of yesteryear. America. It's people. The very best part of her. writer of great passion, innovation and
They are still the most inspiring group of folks "coolness." (His friend, poet Allen Ginsberg
These 20 years have reinforced in me the I've ever known. helped bring Kerouac to national attention).
notion that we are all living in the same skin. He wrote in a very personal, journalistic
And that "doing the best one can do with Bill Mallonee fashion.
what one has," might just be the walk we Santa Fe, NM
endeavor to walk distilled into a single January, 2011 While he always attempted to describe an
sentence. It's "truth," yes, but not truth with ennobled America with reverence and
the bull-horn of formulas. It was something "Ti Jean" (Hearts Crossing the Center Line) tenderness and his place in it, much of his
possessing that Biblical "still, quiet voice." A 11 Songs inspired by the writings of Jack early life and writing was characterized by a
faith lived one-(stumbling)-step-at-a-time. Kerouac By: Bill Mallonee love for experiences ranging from many sexual
People's lives were living sermons saying that encounters to alcohol abuse. Yet, in many of
"you can be down, but not out” OVERVIEW: his works (especially the "middle" period) the
,“disappointed, but hopeful." Wounded and Jean-Louis "Jack" Kerouac (March 12, 1922 – reader will sense a strong religious impulse &
yet capable of "doing the right thing." October 21, 1969) was a Canadian-American element. (Kerouac embraced a Buddhist
novelist and poet. He is considered a pioneer lifestyle for a time and later in life, the
If the very essence of a drifter's life is of “Beat Generation” literature. Kerouac is Catholicism of his youth). His work and life
uncertainty, then we are all drifter's in some recognized for his spontaneous, sensual, were highly charged & controversial in every
sense. Until we find our home there's the fractured method of writing covering topics sense of the word.
day's living to do...and there's each other. And such as Catholic spirituality, jazz, promiscuity,
it seems to be that in that "factory of life," a Buddhism, drugs, poverty, and travel. The Kerouac possessed a mind both brilliant and
heroism is born. An individual is refined, fired “Beats” were a culture of post-war (WW II) tragic. Brilliant because he was so well self-
and steeled against all that is potentially American youth, highly educated but educated, using his wide ranging knowledge
sorrowful and unknown. I've seen such increasingly disillusioned. They began to find to forge a new way with words both in novels
heroism with my own two eyes. less and less in common with an America that and in his poetry that has left a lasting impact
was plunging into secularism and on everything in our culture from literature, to
I've drifted almost all my life now. Town to industrialization. The "Beats" valued literature music, to oratory, even to advertising.
town. Show to show. Song by song. (For a (both old and new), jazz music, super-charged
spell, I was unconsciously reaching for my experiences and friendships. And sadly tragic, because his lifestyle of sexual
house key to open the van, presumably misconduct, misogynistic tendencies and his
because I felt more "at home out there" on Kerouac believed in a deeper innocence of frequent tendency to self-medicate his doubts
the road than at my Athens residence.) post-war America and its people that was in and depressive states with alcohol, pot, and
Singing & songwriting. "It" is still a joy and danger of being lost. Often misunderstood Benzedrine, left him wasted of his brilliant
sometimes a curse. And at some point you and even misappropriated by his peers, powers. These contributed to his death at age
wonder if "it" chose you, as opposed to you Kerouac considered himself a “religious” 47, on Oct. 21st, 1969. And so reader, beware.
choosing "it." So be it. writer. He was a seeker searching for contact Kerouac is a writer of myriad approaches.
Like the old saying goes: "You do your best with permanence & transcendence. He never Tender and insightful, romantic and callously
with what life gives you to do it with." lost his love for his French/Catholic roots. sensual, charitable and then alternately
Often playing the selfish, frustrating and exhilarating.
sociologist, Kerouac,
with the preciseness of WHY JACK KEROUAC?
an "outsider," My fascination with and attraction to JK's
challenged post-war work began after reading a short bio on him
America to assess its by British poet, Steve Turner. Turner's "Angel
values, its goals and Headed Hipster" attempted to reassess the
even its lack of spiritual role of faith and religion in Kerouac's life.
focus. He died at age 47 Kerouac's tenderly appreciated a part of
of complications due to America that he thought was vanishing. He
alcoholism. bemoaned that which was being lost to mass
industrialization, suburbanization and the
AND NOW, A corporate takeover that began to dominate a
WARNING: person's private life. He dreaded the
Before I speak briefly of impersonal in daily life.
my attraction (and
sometimes revulsion) to His writing is deeply "immediate,"
Kerouac's work, I would transparently personal and journalistic. He
like to first offer, a note gleaned many of his experiences for his books
of warning to Down the from hitch hiking across the US with only a
Line Zine readers should backpack, some notebooks and a few
they take it upon personal belongings. Life on the road was the
themselves to delve into crucible for his thoughts and experiences. No
Kerouac’s works: doubt, in my own work as a touring
songwriter, I have found the road to be a
Jack Kerouac, although necessary incubator for my songs.
heralded perhaps as the
BILL MALLONEE | DOWN THE LINE 36
In his middle years, Kerouac began to describe of seeing people, and his hunger for Musician credits:
himself as a religious writer. Still, even though spirituality reality. Because of my work on the "Ti Jean" Hearts Crossing the Center Line was
he continued to perfect and employ his road as a touring and performing songwriter, I released 14 January 2011 at:
distinctive "beat generation" style of rhythmic have identified a great deal with much of his billmalloneemusic.bandcamp.com
words, fractured images, and stream-of- rendition of the displaced artist, in search of a
consciousness, he did not part with his home here and in eternity. Therefore, I think Personnel on:
emphasis on experiences. (Later attempts to all these songs are imbued with a certain "Buddha," "Skin Intact," "All the Junkies &
live by a self-imposed code of abstinence in spirit found in Jack Kerouac's writings. Exiles," "When Your Heart Gets Broken (It Just
regards to alcohol, drugs and sex seem to Keeps on Breaking)," "Bakersfield," "Western
have been spotty in their success at best.) A few summers ago, I went to his birthplace, Skies," "Going Down," " Pillow of Stars," & "
Lowell, MA. I saw (and read some of) the "On Nomenclature"
Kerouac's forging of a new language to help The Road" manuscript, toured the Kerouac Bill Mallonee: vocals, guitars, bass drums on
him describe and tap into the "God-ness" he museum, spoke with the staff there. Visitors Muriah Rose; vocals, keyboards
felt was within each person bears strong were invited to type a message to Jack on an ____________________________________
resemblance to much Catholic natural old Underwood there at the museum. I
theology. He could be brutally honest at times quoted the first two lines from this song and Personnel on SOBER UP:
with himself and just as much living in denial addressed it to "Ti Jean," (Little John) Jack's
the next, engaging in escapist behavior such mother’s term of endearment for her son. Bill Mallonee: vocals, guitars
as abuse of alcohol or casual sex. Here was a Muriah Rose: vocals, keyboards
man, a seeker, struggling to find himself in "Things clear for a moment, when you're Seth Hendershot; drums, smiles
God or God in himself. Many books coming off Desolation; 'Frisco's you're Robbie: bass
(particularly Vision of Gerard, Desolation appointment...just the way you were before." (produced by Tom Lewis & Bill Mallonee)
Angels, Dharma Bums and Tristessa) are -Pax, Ti Jean" ____________________________________
punctuated with prayers to Christ. Kerouac's
heart seems to have been one of chronic Tenderness was one of Kerouac's overlooked personnel on "HARD LUCK & HEART ATTACK"
yearning to realize or find himself realized) in qualities, I believe. It is my hope that by (produced by: Buddy Miller & Bill Mallonee)
a way that was personal and meaningful. To listening to these songs, some of that virtue of Bill Mallonee; Vocals, guitars, harmonica
me, these cries and yearnings and insights, his tender spirit might be restored to his Ken Hutson: guitar, bgv's
echoed the deepest desires of all those who legacy. Jake Bradley: Bass
ever sought mercy and friendship with their Brady Blade: drums
Creator. Bill Mallonee
Santa Fe, NM Jan. 2011 http://billmalloneemusic.bandcamp.com
Often, it seems, at least to this songwriter,
that his friends were the worst influences.
They recognized his genius but failed to see
his deeper needs. His starvation of spiritual
reality eventually saw him returning to the
Catholicism of his youth. He spent his last
years in his hometown of Lowell, MA caring
for his mother, Gabrielle, a devout Catholic. (It
was she who nicknamed Jack "Ti Jean" at an
early age.) She maintained strong ties with
Jack throughout her life and he with her.
ABOUT THIS RECORD:

Except for “HARD LUCK AND HEART ATTACK,”
all of these tunes were written over the last 3
years. As I said, Jack's writing is deeply
personal and journalistic. I began to keep road
journals when touring with VoL around 1994.
“HARD LUCK & HEART ATTACK,” the intro

song, was inspired by Kerouac's work entitled
“Desolation Angels.” It was the first "Kerouac
tune" I wrote and appeared on 1999's Audible
Sigh. It opens with Jack atop Mount
Desolation in Washington State, where he
took a job doing fire watches for the U.S.
Forestry Services. The book (and song) touch
on his self destructive lifestyle, trips to San
Francisco to hang with his friends, and his
excursions to Mexico City to visit his friend a
"beat writer," William S. Burroughs.
(Thoughts on his relationship to W. S.
Burroughs are continued in the song/hymn
“All the Junkies & Exiles.”)
Above all, on this album, I wanted to highlight

Kerouac's reverent belief in the potential
nobility of the American spirit, his tender way
37 LIVE REPORT | BRIAN KIRSCH PART 3
be 49 in January and my prospects aren’t Another thing is that I wouldn’t have gotten
looking too good at this point, especially when rid of Lance Harris, the first guitarist. There
I’m working a job to just pay the bills. were just some personality conflicts there, but
I wouldn’t have done it that way now. Also,
Tell me again how long it has been. the songs are pretty good but I think I would
have taken a little more time on some of the
It was two years ago October 1st… arrangements I think.
I know a lot of people get kind of down In regards to you and searching out your
around the holidays anyway, and I was just faith, where are you in that journey?
wondering how you deal with this season
and how you get through it. Well I’m thinking of going back to church
possibly and probably if I do that will go to
Well, I’ve said before… I wouldn’t say I’m something with a little more structure like a
morose, but like when I was a kid I was so shy Lutheran church, I think that would be good
and introverted that I wouldn’t talk to people. for me.
My mom would make me go up to a clerk in
the grocery store and ask where items were, I know last time we talked you thought you
just to get me to talk to somebody. Basically it were headed away from Agnosticism, still
was rock ‘n roll that took me out of that. I’m feel that way?
still a little depressive, but that’s just my
nature though. Yeah, yeah I feel I’ve definitely moved away
from that. I still have questions and I still
For other people that are reading and wonder whether someone else’s religion or
BRIAN possibly going through the same thing, how

do you deal with something as dramatic as
losing a loved one, or losing a loved one to
faith is wrong just because it’s not
Christianity, and I don’t like to see people get
pushed aside because of their beliefs. You
“STERLING”
suicide? can’t do that to people, it is what they
believe, especially for people who live in other
You just get through it… I mean I told you I countries and cultures. You can’t downgrade
lost my girlfriend, then about a month later I people’s beliefs simply because you don’t
KIRSCH lost my job, then I had to move out of where I

was living and I moved back in with my family.
I basically didn’t leave my room for the next
agree with them, all that does it put a wedge
between people.
[part 3]
four to six months. I went out and did stuff Is there anything else that you want to talk
every once in awhile, but basically stayed at about, anything that you want to add?
home.
There are probably some things you could ask
Interview by Steve Ruff Was it good to have your family around? me that you are probably wondering about,
you want to take a shot in the dark and ask,
This was the last interview that we did with Yeah, but we’re the kind of family that doesn’t go ahead.
Sterling. It was the Part 3 of a lengthy article really talk about stuff or talk stuff out. We like
and the culmination of several hours of each other, we love each other and my Mom Is there something you want to say?
conversation. This last installment is much was there for me, but she knows I’m not
shorter than the previous offerings, but it was much of a talker. When it comes to really Well, one thing that people don’t know…
kind of the wrap up to all that we had spoken emotional stuff I usually will keep it pretty while we were recording Mr. Sunshine one of
about. At the end of the article read what he much close to the vest. I can’t say that I had the things that helped put an end to Veil of
have as the rules for a very cool contest with any mind shattering revelations on how I got Ashes was that my girlfriend and I had broken
an absolute one of a kind prize. This has been through it or anything like that, it was just one up. She had been talking to other guys in the
cool to do with Sterling and to watch him on a foot in front of the other man. band and kind of the last person to know was
journey that he has put much thought, many me… and that was really hard. After that
tears and plenty of questions into. C.S. Lewis With Veil, if you had to go back and do it happened Jeremy killed himself and after his
once said that, “Faith is never doubt free.” over again, would you change anything? death everyone in the band kind of moved out
That statement has been one of those lines to different parts of the Bay Area. There was a
that has been a cornerstone in my life and a That’s a good question… I would change some lot of conflict, not conflict in the band, but
great equalizer in so many areas. Thanks again of my attitudes. conflict towards the band and I could really
to Sterling for being so honest and filling in see in a lot of different ways things starting to
the blanks about where he has been, what he How? fall apart.
has been doing, and for shedding some light
on Veil of Ashes and so much that they Well sometimes I had a bad attitude about What happened to Jeremy?
encountered. things. A lot of the times after shows me and
my girlfriend and my roadie were loading up Okay, Jeremy Hawley… First all, Phil Meads is
I know it’s kind of personal, but coming my truck with gear and getting everything one of the most incredible drummers I’ve ever
through the holidays and around this time of together… everyone called me “dad” you worked with, he was Veil‘s original drummer.
year, how are you coping with the loss of know, I was always trying to corral the kittens. He could take the beats so close to being
your girlfriend? Not so much because I was a control freak, outside of the time signatures and bring it
but because I wanted things done, and I back in, he was the Keith Moon of Christian
It’s still a bummer, it doesn’t really bother me would get pretty upset when people would rock as far as I’m concerned. Jeremy was a
as much as it used to…but every now and disappear when we were supposed to be great drummer. He was a kid, he was 20 when
then I just kind of feel like, “Oh crap,” but doing sound check, just stuff like that. he joined the band and he was a very
what are you gonna do ya know? I’m going to
BRIAN KIRSCH PART 3 | DOWN THE LINE 38
depressed kid. He grew up in a Christian the band for six months until I got my stuff
family but was sexually abused by a relative. together, but the thing was that while we CONTEST RULES:
When that happened to him they took him to were recording Mr. Sunshine I was doing This one is easy. If you are a fan of Veil of
a Christian psychologist, or therapist, and drugs. That had a lot to do with killing the Ashes and one of their friends on face book,
basically all he was told was that he needed to band too, probably more than anyone will pop on over to Down The Line’s face book
get right with God that there was nothing admit. I did get out of it and get clean, it page and become one of our friends. Post on
wrong with him… bad advice. So he was batted me around a couple more times our wall why you should be the one to win. It
carrying all that around with him and no one through the years, but I’m alright, I made it is that easy… we will pick a winner at random
really knew about it. I was the last one to see through it. and contact you through face book. The prize
him alive. We were at a club together that you ask…? The original artwork to The Young
was having a “goth night” and we left there Wow, that’s a lot that has gone on and a lot and the Reckless: The Regression of Veil Of
and drove back over to his house across the that has happened. Is there anything else Ashes. When I say original, I mean the only
bay where we were just watching Bauhaus you would like to add? one that exists, signed by the artist and
and Tones on Tail videos, and then after a looking for a good home.
while I left. I guess what happened was that a I want to thank everyone who likes Veil so
few weeks before we had played a showcase much. Still hearing to this day how people Veil of Ashes page:
for Hollywood Records, and Jeremy’s took us into their hearts is really gratifying. It’s http://www.facebook.com/pages/VEIL-OF-
girlfriend had come up from college on break like a little band that meant something to a lot ASHES/354542937541
to see him. They were supposed to be getting of people and touched their lives in some
married and she basically told him she had way, and that is still going on today which is Down the Line page:
decided she wasn’t going to marry him, he unbelievable, but very cool. http://www.facebook.com/DownTheLineZine
was just an immature musician and she really
just cut him up. I didn’t even know about
that… but after I got back home I gave him a
call and he had left this really weird answer on
the machine. I told Sean to keep calling him
until I got back down there, and by the time I
made it back, Jeremy’s dad told me that he
had hung himself. It was really hard.
So at that point things were really starting to

unwind to a degree?
You know I said before I am a little depressive,

and prior to the band ever getting together I
had been engaged to a different girl that had
broken up with me and I lived through a
tough depression for about a year. I never
realized how much a person can hurt
physically from depression. So after 1992
when everything was falling apart I got
depressed again and started doing drugs
again. I hadn’t done any drugs since I had
been about 18 or 19 years old, but I started
smoking crack. It just felt like the sky was lead,
nothing was going up and everything around
me was falling apart and dying.
I was smoking crack for about 6 months and

realized I really had a problem because I
couldn’t stop. I was making about $1000 a
week working construction but I was barely
paying my rent, putting a little gas in the car,
maybe eating, and spending everything else
on crack. After about 6 months of that I talked
to Sean and he basically said, “Okay, we won’t
say anything to the band about this, but you
need to get your sh*t together.” That was all
we ever said about it…we probably should
have talked and followed up on it but we
didn’t. Then a week before Christmas in ‘92 I
got busted by the cops in Oakland trying to
score and ended up spending a week in
Oakland city jail with 84 other guys in the
same big cell. It was like a boarding room.
After all that I went through drug court and an

intensive drug program in California and I got
clean. It was rough though, because after that
I was basically on suspension or kicked out of
39 DOWN THE LINE | REVIEWS
For those unfamiliar with Aradhna, they are I've liked every song I've ever heard from CB.
an original mix of Hindi language, English Man, I really missed this band and am so glad
language, rock music, Indian music, guitar, to have them back! Let's hope the next one
sitar, and many other English and Indian doesn't take so long to come out.
influences. They successfully remove Jesus – Josh Lory
from the white churchianity-dominated
mindset of so many Americans and skillfully
introduce him into an Indian mindset. But
don’t worry if you aren’t fluent in Hindi –
lyrical translations are always a part of the
liner notes for every Aradhna release. Even if
you take away the translations, it would be
hard to not get caught up in the mood of each
The Choir – De-Plumed
song. Early Aradhna albums seemed to have
2010 TheChoir.net more distinct lines between the rock parts
The Choir strikes gold again. This surprise and the mellow parts. On Namasate Sate,
release was the second in 2010 for the guys in these lines are nearly gone – songs seamlessly
The Choir. It was not only eagerly welcomed transform from floating and acoustic to
by fans, but it is unlike anything you have ever intense and electric and back again. This Grammatrain – Imperium
heard The Choir guys do. I was surprised lends a more mature edge to the overall
because not only is this a stripped down
2010 Grammatrain.net
project. The swelling and subsiding of the
acoustic Choir offering, they also revisit songs Grammatrain returns with their first full
music reminds me of walking along the streets
from previous albums – which is unusual for album in years. They still sound like
of India in many ways – one moment you are
them. Normally I’m not a big fan of bands Grammatrain – no attempts have been made
in a quiet neighborhood where it seem like
taking songs from prior albums, doing them to adopt a new style. That’s not to say this is
time is standing still, then you hear the loud
acoustically and packaging a new disc… BUT, a re-hash of their first two albums. There is
street growing closer, then you are in the
this is very different from anything else of that definitely a good amount of growth when
midst of a sea of people – caught up in the
nature. They didn’t just sing through these comparing these songs to older material. To
rush but not feeling any pressure to get
songs with an acoustic guitar, Hindalong still me, the songs seem to be a bit more plodding
anywhere. You just enjoy the ride. Which is
handles a well favored and minimal approach than in the past – fewer borderline punk
exactly what I do with every listen of Aradhna.
to the percussion, and they have also added songs than on Flying or Lonely House. Not
– Matt Crosslin
Matt Slocum on the cello which really that this is a bad thing – they still have some
embodies the richness of the acoustic great riffs going on here. The spiritual
melancholy of these songs. Another nice dynamic is also interesting, as lead singer Pete
touch is that they used Ron Lyon for the Stewart recently said he is no longer a
artwork again, as they had done previously on Christian, but tries to write songs that would
Burning Like the Midnight Sun. This has not offend the Roraback brothers.
quickly become one of my favorite Choir – Matt Crosslin
releases, it is a must have for your collection.
– Steve Ruff
Craig’s Brother – The Insidious Lie

2010 CraigsBrother.com
Been waiting along time for this one – the
bands third full length – worth the wait. Epic
melodic Punk Rock, great production, layered
vocal harmonies, technical guitar parts,
Bloodgood – Detonation
drummer is always amazing, all that you'd
expect from these guys by now. Still have the 2010 IntenseMillennium.com
Bad Religion meets Lagwagon vibe, but The fine folks are Intense Millennium Records
Aradhna – Namaste Sate lyrically way more heart on the sleeve than have re-mastered and re-released this
2011 AradhnaMusic.com the aforementioned bands. Craig's Brothers landmark Christian metal record. In the late
The new album by Aradhna, Namaste Sate, is lyrics are always cut deep in the heart, songs 80’s when hair metal was the rage, Bloodgood
a work of beauty. Everything from the of loss, betrayal, let downs, life's stresses, if drops this second release and makes a name
photography to the videos to the music comes you are a caring person you can relate to what for themselves. If you remember these guys
together in one awe-inspiring package. How Ted Bond writes about in such a poetic when they were first around, they looked
appropriate, since Aradhna means “worship.” fashion. I like every song on the album, heck, more like a hair metal band, complete with
doofy spandex gear and big hair. In actuality
REVIEWS| DOWN THE LINE 40
they were merging the sound of traditional itself to really making this album crisp, concise Planet should be re-mastered and available by
metal with a fairly heavy influence of and heavy, heavy, heavy! This new re-release the time you read this. I wanted to cover
thrash/speed metal guitar work. Michael also comes with new artwork and a new Thunder Beach simply because although it
Bloodgood and company really paved the way booklet/insert to boot. Thanks to Intense might not be their most popular piece of
for more acceptance of thrash bands to come. Millennium for making this available. If you work, it was the first Christian album that I got
The music can best be compared to Judas haven’t ever listened to Vengeance Rising this when I was growing up. I still remember my
Priest, maybe even Iron Maiden, but is the best way to get started. Even if you own aunt purchased Thunder Beach for me as a
Bloodgood was something new and fresh to the first release (I still have the cassette), grab Christmas present. I also got some Twila Paris
the Christian metal market. Les Carlsen’s this one because the re-mastering gives new cassette at the same time (woe is me!).
vocals could hit the high notes and carry a life to this album. HM Magazine also ranked Anyway, I love the packaging on this disc, the
rapid pace. David Zaffiro’s guitar work was this debut as the #1 metal release ever. silhouetted outlines of the band members are
one of a kind, full of solos and sharp guitar Christian thrash…come listen and see where it really cool. This is one of the best pop discs
work, he led the charge and brought a speed all began. that came out at the time. This release saw
and depth into the genre that was new and – Steve Ruff the band progress away from the synth pop
needed. This release comes complete with sound and incorporate a more pop rock feel
two bonus live tracks that showcase the with edgier tracks like “Once In A Heartbreak”
tightness of the band playing live. These guys and the title track “Thunder Beach”. There are
are still going and still making news with a also straight up pop tracks here that are a lot
induction into the Christian Music Hall of of fun, an instrumental track and a couple of
Fame in 2010. (bloodgoodband.com) ballads thrown in for good measure. I’ve
– Steve Ruff never been a big fan of ballads, but I
absolutely love “Tough Act To Follow”, the
words are timeless and the sentiment is deep.
Check out iTunes for this release!
– Steve Ruff
Bloodgood – Bloodgood
2010 IntenseMillennium.com
Bloodgood’s classic debut album gets the re-
issue treatment from Intense Millennium
Records. The sound is classic metal – a little
power, a little melodic, but all shred. The only
real problem when it was first released was
Vengeance Rising – Human Sacrifice
the limited recording budget. Now that has
2010 IntenseMillennium.com been fixed with a nice re-mastering job that
Vengeance Rising… what can I say? This first really helps these songs shine. Two bonus
release was the definitive Christian thrash tracks were also added – basically alternate
record of its time. Originally released in 1988, versions of other songs on the album. They Sacred Warrior - Rebellion
everything about this record caused a stir. also fixed the original’s odd “I kinda get it but 2010 IntenseMillennium.com
People complained about lead singer Roger kinda don’t” cover art. A quality album all the Sacred Warrior was one of the first Christian
Martinez’s voice, they complained about the way around. bands to take on the progressive metal genre
album art, song titles, record title etc. etc. etc. – Matt Crosslin pioneered by Queensryche. They are not
Even with all the finger pointing, name calling copycats by any means, but fans of simple riff
and griping, Human Sacrifice put the metal rock might want to look elsewhere. You
world on notice. There were huge riffs, probably already know the album – so let’s
throbbing bass lines, guttural vocals and talk about the re-issue. The sound is vastly
pummeling drums. There wasn’t anything else improved from the original – almost to the
like this in Christian metal, and Vengeance point of making you feel like you are listening
(before they added Rising to their name) blew for the first time. The two bonus tracks are
the doors off and could easily hold pace with unreleased demos. And top that all off with
any of their contemporaries in the thrash some great new artwork. I can’t say I have
world like Megadeth, Slayer and early loved all of the recent front cover upgrades,
Metallica. It was a breath of fresh air for but this one is much better than the original.
metal, and it was a genre defining release that The original was a cool concept, but just
other bands would always be compared to. probably suffered from picking the wrong live
The cool thing about the re-release is the Crumbächer – Thunder Beach picture. The new cover is a bit gothic, but it
addition of several bonus tracks and an looks great. Another quality re-issue from
1987 Frontline Records
interview with former original vocalist Roger Intense Millennium.
I chose to review this Crumbächer disc, but it
Martinez. The re-mastering really helps the – Matt Crosslin
should be noted that Escape From the Fallen
clarity to come through as well, and it lends
41 DOWN THE LINE | REVIEWS
sale. You can check out the album for yourself got into this release. Maybe it’s because the
– but why would you even bother? If you like music is way more complex than I originally
edgy, guitar-based alternative rock, you will thought. These five guys hail from Michigan
love this. It is not loud or aggressive, but very and put out a powerhouse of what I can only
enjoyable. I keep coming back to the song describe as indie pop. Produced by Jeff Elbel
“Million,” but I can also listen to the whole of Ping and Farewell To Juliet, this disc is
thing from start to finish. I have also read that actually quite fun. Upon first listen I thought it
Linford Detweiler of Over The Rhine makes a sounded somewhere along the lines of Brian
guest appearance. May playing guitar for The Beatles. It has a
– Matt Crosslin grown up indie drive with a pop sensibility
and thrill. The lyrics are really good and tell
unique snapshots with a storyteller’s rhyme.
The music and arrangements are really unique
and out of the norm. Definite feel good, roll
Luxury – Health And Sport down the window on a sunny day music.
2005 NorthernRecords.com Check them out and give it a go!
Luxury’s 2005 release starts out soothing, – Steve Ruff
warming and softly engaging… with minimal
guitar, cymbal and drum work. Lee Bozeman’s
vocals come into play and that distinct Luxury
vibe takes over. The distortion bleeds in with
a soft and casual stream and the vocals accent
the sounds that permeate my listening space.
Luxury is a one-of-a-kind band with a very
distinct sound that draws on different
Miranda Stone – 7 Deadly Sins
elements of post punk and shoe gaze genres, 2002 MirandaStone.com
definitely know that when listening to these I know the date shows that this album has
guys they turn distortion into a beautiful been out for nearly 10 years, but I am just
sound. Northern released this record a few now discovering it. Miranda is married to
years back and I think it is probably their best Aradhna sitar player Chris Hale. So as a fan of
effort. It’s one of those records that I can’t Aradhna, I figured I should check this album Vengeance Rising – Once Dead
find any fault with, I love the drums, guitar out. I am glad I did. This is not pop-y wanna 2010 IntenseMillennium.com
work, the vocals, percussion, piano, be folk – Miranda has grit and a bite that sets
Where Human Sacrifice introduced this band
everything about this disc screams quality and her apart from the crowd. She is also backed
to the market, Once Dead solidified their
the band elicits a broad range of emotion by a full band. The grit is not only in the music
place in the Christian metal world. Kicking off
throughout the entire disc. I give this one two but also the lyrics – some great ideas to chew
this record with an eerie recital of the The
thumbs up, check it out and purchase a copy if on here. Miranda also has a powerful set of
Lord’s Prayer, Vengeance Rising stormed back
you haven’t already. pipes that fits the music perfectly. The only
into the scene with a fury and a (ahem)
– Steve Ruff problem I have with this album is that it is the
vengeance. This release continues down the
last solo album she recorded. There is
path that these guys started, but this offering
another full length and ep before this one that
is more mature, more concise and much
I am hunting down – but we need to hear
tighter than its predecessor. Unfortunately
more!
this would be the last record with the original
– Matt Crosslin
line-up, but the band gave us something
memorable. With even meaner and faster
riffs, sharp and crisp guitar solos, the band
sounded even better than before. Staying true
to form this release was also very Biblically
based lyrically, controversial, but ultimately
uplifting. The guys at Intense Millennium
Records have done a tremendous job with the
re-mastering and re-packaging of this classic
McAllister – Strong Tower record. There are an additional 4 bonus tracks
2007 TimMcAllister.com released with this re-packaging disc as well.
Tim McAllister originally made a name for Once Dead hits the groove and doesn’t let up
himself as the leader of Flock 14 and then for almost a solid hour. Vengeance Rising’s
World Theatre. Strong Tower has obviously legacy is well documented and well deserved,
been out for a while, but I recently discovered Mumble – Happy Living don’t let Roger Martinez’s leaving the band
that you can download a version of it for free 2010 netads.com/music/marathon/mumble overshadow how great this band truly was.
from his site. I say “a version” because there I’ll be honest when reviewing this and tell you They blazed a trail and lit a torch!
is an expanded version of the physical CD for that I had to listen a couple of times before I – Steve Ruff
REVIEWS| DOWN THE LINE 42
SHORT SHOTS Many bands today are opting to release singles, eps, and one-off songs online instead of recording whole
albums. Here are our reviews of these random length musical endeavors.
Ric Alba – Butterfly | 2011 iTunes

Ric Alba released this single track a couple of months ago and it flows perfectly as if he never stopped making music. This could have easily fit
on Holes In the Floor of Heaven. It sounds remarkable in its degree of emotion and the depth of what he is trying to communicate. One of the
things that has always been so satisfying to me about Alba’s solo work is his ability to not only communicate the complexity of emotion that
he is conveying through his lyrics, but also through the music itself. He does that on “Butterfly” as well. The music sounds immediate, the
piano brings a fresh urgency to what he is saying and the lyrics are familiar in theme and in Ric’s style of writing. One of my favorite lines is:
“How many hearts, no one knows

Are buried under streets of gold
No one asks, no one told
And I had no other place to go”
Ric’s music is consistently touching and compelling. It becomes a mirror that we hold and look back at ourselves. Ric was inspired to write a
song after Brian Healy shared the Lonnie Frisbee documentary with him. This is part of what Ric said to me, “This isn't just a song about being
gay and closeted---not by any stretch. It's about having wonderful, special, or unique qualities of any kind that we hide, or feel pressured to
hide, so that we fit in. What the documentary inspired in me was that some of us, hopefully most of us, find our way to let our wings fly open
and without shame, whether we realize it or not. Lonnie did it with his charismatic ministry, maybe I kinda did it a little in the context of Altar
Boys and Holes. Everybody can probably site one way or another how they broke out of their caterpillar drag from time to time.” For those
wondering where to get this, you can just swing over to iTunes and purchase this track. – Steve Ruff
Sungrazerr – I Don’t Need A Lot of Love…Just A Steady Supply | 2010 SubdivisionTheory.com

Sungrazerr has released three more tracks of sonic brilliance. This little E.P. is titled I Don’t Need A Lot of Love, Just A Steady Supply. The first
track up is “They Listen” with a hearty dose of tense and vague wondering as we listen to the fuzzed out communications of what appears to
be air controllers in communication with someone reporting a UFO sighting. Whatever it is, it sounds best through the headphones and is a
great track to ease into the new recording. Up next is the song, “de respirer dans”, which is French for “breathe in” and the layering of this
track is absolutely beautiful. The music seems to be climbing and descending at the same time, all while carrying on this softly distorted
ambience of ebb and flow…stunning indeed! Track three is “Alligators,” and this one clocks in at a fuzzy 6 minutes and 11 seconds. I love this
music and this band, it’s like listening to a landscape in another world, good news is there is more to come soon! – Steve Ruff
The Altar Billies – The Altar Billies | 2010 facebook.com/altarbillies

This really actually is a full 11 song CD, but fits more in with the eps because it is only 5 recorded songs and then six live/instrumental versions
of those same songs. It is also very economically priced wherever you get it. The production is a little bit on the DIY side, but that is
understandable. What you have here are classic songs by The Altar Boys covered in rockabilly style. It is as fun as it sounds. Putting these
songs in a different format helps to showcase just how great the songwriting was in The Altar Boys. – Matt Crosslin
Upside Down Room – TV Baby (re-issue) | 2010 PopVoxMusic.com

Upside Down Room’s long out of print ep is back. I missed this the first time around and it has been virtually impossible to find up until now.
The new version has been re-mastered with two bonus tracks added along with updated artwork. I’m not sure where the bonus tracks are
from, but they sound like they could have been recorded in the same session. Upside Down Room always stuck with their biker punk sound as
a core, but each release saw them grow and stretch a bit. A great album that I am glad to see back. – Matt Crosslin
Trip Wamsley and Steve Lawson – Infrablab | 2010 tripwamsley.bandcamp.com

As a former bass guitar player myself (no time now!), I have followed Trip Wamsley for a while. At one point, he was somehow connected to
Caedmon’s Call – but if that is a bad thing to you, don’t worry. Trip’s music is spaced out bass jams that even non-bass players love. I can’t
tell you how many people tell me they love Trip’s music even though they hate instrumental albums of any kind. This ep has him teaming up
with bassist Steve Lawson, and the results are cool, trippy, and awesome. – Matt Crosslin
Dann Gunn – Easy | 2010 DannGunn.com

Dann Gunn, formerly of R.E.X. Recording artist Velocipede – is still active in music. This ep is his latest release. Dann is still loud and in your
face, but a bit less rough around the edges. This also sounds a bit more industrial than past recordings. Dann has a strong voice that tends to
set this music apart. Think powerful, well sung vocals over a bed of distortion. I keep coming back to the title song – it has a nice, driving
rhythm and pace. Short but rockin’ ep. – Matt Crosslin
Untitled (2010) by Rick McDonough

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Microcredit is "the extension of very small loans (microloans) to the unemployed, to poor

Intense Millennium $15.00 and up will receive a download

See their Kickstarter page here:

“On Jan. 11, 2011 the complete catalog

But they chose the path of greed.

As a drummer and percussionist where do you draw

I like to find things in tool sheds and kitchens to use as

Now indulge me this passionate proclamation: Tambourines

We had performed a private acoustic concert for a few faithful

The title, de-plumed, was actually inspired by an art piece given to

You guys were part of a very influential music scene in Southern

It was gratifying to interact with one another after so many years –

What are you working on right now?

What does the future look like for The Choir?

Continued on page 28…

THE LIGHT AND HOPE OF CHRIST WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ART

What is the responsibility (if there is one) of an artist when it comes to

Our relationship to Christ, which should be a transformational relationship

That’s a good question and I’m not sure I’m

Go to: www.take2productions.net or www.lifequestorganic.com for more

Anything that you would like to add that I

I like Boston Baked Beans candies.

SUNGRAZERR fuzzing out near the black bunny haven

Continued on page 33…

has been inspiring. But never have we felt so

The road has always held a certain fascination

And that old, abandoned farm house? How

Much later on, as a recording artist and

So I chiseled these images and feelings in

BILL MALLONEE ever have a TV camera turned on them at the

ABOUT THIS RECORD:

“HARD LUCK & HEART ATTACK,” the intro

Above all, on this album, I wanted to highlight

BRIAN possibly going through the same thing, how

KIRSCH lost my job, then I had to move out of where I

So at that point things were really starting to

You know I said before I am a little depressive,

I was smoking crack for about 6 months and

After all that I went through drug court and an

Craig’s Brother – The Insidious Lie

Ric Alba – Butterfly | 2011 iTunes

“How many hearts, no one knows

Sungrazerr – I Don’t Need A Lot of Love…Just A Steady Supply | 2010 SubdivisionTheory.com

The Altar Billies – The Altar Billies | 2010 facebook.com/altarbillies

Upside Down Room – TV Baby (re-issue) | 2010 PopVoxMusic.com

Trip Wamsley and Steve Lawson – Infrablab | 2010 tripwamsley.bandcamp.com

Dann Gunn – Easy | 2010 DannGunn.com

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